push fold charts

Richard~

I feel like I should read up on this a bit so I can crush my SnG's again. Anyone here have a good chart to share? like tony guarerra's chart or something else covering 5-18 BB pushes

[deleted]

if u send me ur email adress i can send u a pdf of one

Richard~

costanza;318943 wroteif u send me ur email adress i can send u a pdf of one

call01@hotmail.com

I'd appriciate it, I'm actually suprised I couldn't just google it :P

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Richard~

well, technically all pokerpwnage members already have permission to use that, thanks a lot =)

you can just imagine the work he and his girlfriend put into creating that

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Richard~;318955 wrotewell, technically all pokerpwnage members already have permission to use that, thanks a lot =)

you can just imagine the work he and his girlfriend put into creating that

haha yeah alot of work went into it

tbh after staring at it for hours, ive found some iffy spots (imo) but idk how to do the math so i dont even know how to point it out or like even talk about it without looking retarded

[deleted]

costanza;318951 wrotecopyright infringement shipped via email

He's cool with it, doesn't want his 3bet chart sent around though, wasn't done with them. I just noticed the new nash calc download does the 3bet shoving :-X

costanza;318958 wroteive found some iffy spots (imo)

you never answer me but Ill try once more to ask you a question. When you say your opinion, what are you basing it on? Do you just say whoa thats weird, or do you have a system, or does it not match your shove charts? If you give an example then someone could explain it (there are a few very small mistakes).

costanza;318958 wrote but idk how to do the math

Those shove charts are the math, Evelyn used the nash calculator to make them.

If you have questions Rich, on the sheets post them because Ive seen all his vids a few times (you have too if irc and Ive also had 2 privates with Tony.

BlondeFish

darbday;319000 wroteIve also had 2 privates with Tony.

You've had two private coaching sessions with Tony? I would credit his math-based books and podcasts as being the most helpful continuing education for me. Didn't he retire from playing (1/2 live)?

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darbday;319000 wrote

you never answer me but Ill try once more to ask you a question. When you say your opinion, what are you basing it on? Do you just say whoa thats weird, or do you have a system, or does it not match your shove charts? If you give an example then someone could explain it (there are a few very small mistakes).
.

I think overall what messed me up was you telling me towards the end of our sessions that waiting to hit the blinds was more +EV then jamming in a "meh" spot

so i.e , shove chart says shoving any pair up to like 17 beibers in MP-LP is +EV and that just boggles my mind

I honestly cant count the number of times i would zip in 22-77 in those spots and get pwned when i get looked up with Q7o+ and shit. very tilting

tough to word, but a bunch of times ive shipped in what i THOUGHT was +EV spots only to realize that maybe it isnt, and thats why ive stopped playing turbo's altogether... I thought maybe i was to tight (tough to imagine considering i shove wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide , but now i just think maybe the chart is flawed a lil)

either that, or im doom switched in key spots and am running bad, but to run that bad for that long in turbo's is like.. not possible, hence i only play reg and deep structures now

[deleted]

BlondeFish;319021 wroteYou've had two private coaching sessions with Tony Guerrera? I would credit his math-based books and podcasts as being the most helpful continuing education for me. Didn't he retire from playing (1/2 live)?

yup first was early on when I started 2nd wasn't not so long ago, within a year I guess. We had an interesting conversation about nash and shoving last time, I wish I could talk to guys like that for like 15 hours at a time. Killer poker by the numbers is one of the most unreal books out there, took me like 5 reads. I read it 4 or 5 pages at a time driving truck underground and then an hour long haul to think about out. He said he was having troubles finishing his parts for 'Tournament poker end game', I was really looking forward to it. He was still playing some I think but did get a job programming slots or video poker or something.

[deleted]

costanza;319024 wroteI think overall what messed me up was you telling me towards the end of our sessions that waiting to hit the blinds was more +EV then jamming in a "meh" spot

so i.e , shove chart says shoving any pair up to like 17 beibers in MP-LP is +EV and that just boggles my mind

the example you gave here isn't an example of your first paragraph. I was widening my utg range from what the nash charts said, some winning players still do this, many actually but you can just go with nash, the 2nd time I talked to Tony he said he used to widen but he doesn't anymore.

costanza;319024 wroteso i.e , shove chart says shoving any pair up to like 17 beibers in MP-LP is +EV and that just boggles my mind

why should it boggle your mind though?

costanza;319024 wroteI honestly cant count the number of times i would zip in 22-77 in those spots and get pwned when i get looked up with Q7o+ and shit.

You're thinking about your hand vs his and the result. Tell me about your range and his range?

costanza;319024 wrotetough to word, but a bunch of times ive shipped in what i THOUGHT was +EV spots only to realize that maybe it isnt,

How did you realize it wasn't +ev, because you lost the hand? If its nash its gold and you already know, if its because later you got smarter or someone told you its wrong, then you learned-thats win/win.

costanza;319024 wrote I thought maybe i was to tight (tough to imagine considering i shove wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide

everyone says they are wide and lag, I know zero lag regs and only like 4 or 5 that are wide shovers.

costanza;319024 wrotebut now i just think maybe the chart is flawed a lil)

the chart is nash so you are saying nash is flawed.

costanza;319024 wrote either that, or im doom switched in key spots and am running bad, but to run that bad for that long in turbo's is like

If you shove well and spew otherwise you won't win at poker. If you tighten your shoving beyond nash you'll do even worse.

costanza;319024 wrote
hence i only play reg and deep structures now

yes but does that fix it or just slow it down?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Also forgot to mention that I'm of the thought these days that if you only shove nash in the 180s and don't adjust you can't beat the game, I'm curious about that

[deleted]

that last point is interesting as hell, id like to hear more about that.

RE: me specifically, I could probably dig thru my HUD and find some hands that are nash/in the shove chart that I think are wack but shoved anyways because it said to, id love to hear your thoughts on them.

[deleted]

costanza;319043 wrotethat last point is interesting as hell, id like to hear more about that.

RE: me specifically, I could probably dig thru my HUD and find some hands that are nash/in the shove chart that I think are wack but shoved anyways because it said to, id love to hear your thoughts on them.

Not called your hud....dig through your database.

bring them up if the nash charts say its a shove I'm just going to tell you its a shove because the nash calculator said so :confused:

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darbday;319044 wroteNot called your hud....dig through your database.

bring them up if the nash charts say its a shove I'm just going to tell you its a shove because the nash calculator said so :confused:

ive been importing hands and looking thru my pt4 for a long time now, this was harder to find then i thought lol, ill find somethin.

ya i know u will, but, maybe i can find hand or 2 that are close as hell and i can refine my ranges and prove that there r some really freaking close spots in that shove chart

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costanza;319045 wroteive been importing hands and looking thru my pt4 for a long time now, this was harder to find then i thought lol, ill find somethin.

ya i know u will, but, maybe i can find hand or 2 that are close as hell and i can refine my ranges and prove that there r some really freaking close spots in that shove chart

if they are spots you are talking about where the shove charts say to push why don't you make up an example from the charts?

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darbday;319046 wroteif they are spots you are talking about where the shove charts say to push why don't you make up an example from the charts?

I suppose that's easier, i was gonna find a specific example so u could see stack sizes, etc and be like "ya shit. that is close" , but ill make one up, i got a lil time before bed

SuitedPair

Darb

do you deviate from nash based on your reads? so wider against nits and tighter against loose players?

do you ever throw in flat out bottom of range bluffs to mess with the stats they have of you or is that so -ev it isn't worth it.

good discussion

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costanza;319047 wrote but ill make one up, i got a lil time before bed

??? give up?

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SuitedPair;319059 wrote
do you ever throw in flat out bottom of range bluffs to mess with the stats they have of you or is that so -ev it isn't worth it.

good discussion

I never just shove nash, pretty much nobody I play calls light enough. So generally it will always be looser, and really loose vs some. And yes I always tailor the ranges as much as possible.

SuitedPair;319059 wrote do you ever throw in flat out bottom of range bluffs to mess with the stats they have of you or is that so -ev it isn't worth it.

I think you mean hands that are outside the bottom of my range, hands that are more towards the bottom of the deck (or do you mean flat). But I will shove the bottom of my range always (by definition since its my range). I will consider, but very seldom, doing something for what I think you mean is metagame but only vs very few players. Most players are either too bad too notice, or not able to understand what to do vs my extra wide shove, or they play too many tables to care to adjust (the best regs don't really care cause they play 30+ tables.

Also keep in mind if they think you shove wider, then eventually you'll just have to tighten up vs them anyways.

The point is kinda that you want them to think you are as tight as possible so you can shove as wide as possible. There are a couple player who think I'm so loose I can just shove nash and they will exploit themselves and call way looser then nash tells them.

[deleted]

darbday;319061 wrote??? give up?

passed out, ill give an example a little later on when i have more time.