another JJ spot

pele1515

PokerStars Hand #74492128703: Tournament #506458206, $7.34+$0.66 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2012/01/26 0:05:54 ET
Table '506458206 16' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Escapemylove (7503 in chips)
Seat 2: URWRSTNTMARE (4385 in chips)
Seat 3: Marminator12 (4030 in chips)
Seat 4: cris&tani18 (3854 in chips)
Seat 5: 13131984 (4586 in chips)
Seat 6: dhilton12 (2901 in chips)
Seat 7: lordco (4890 in chips)
Seat 8: StormBerry (9169 in chips)
Escapemylove: posts the ante 25
URWRSTNTMARE: posts the ante 25
Marminator12: posts the ante 25
cris&tani18: posts the ante 25
13131984: posts the ante 25
dhilton12: posts the ante 25
lordco: posts the ante 25
StormBerry: posts the ante 25
StormBerry: posts small blind 150
Escapemylove: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to StormBerry [Jd Js]
URWRSTNTMARE: folds
Marminator12: folds
cris&tani18: raises 3529 to 3829 and is all-in
13131984: folds
dhilton12: folds
lordco: folds
StormBerry: *does what?*
Escapemylove: *still to act*

:o

no notes on the villian, new ish table.

Hellmuth's Mole

Snap shove to isolate.

kwsteve

Allin

pele1515

ya? Couldn't villian easily have QQ+ , AK, AQ? Is a race necessary here?

Hellmuth's Mole

pele1515;296706 wroteya? Couldn't villian easily have QQ+ , AK, AQ? Is a race necessary here?

He could. With an M around 8 he could have A rag, any underpair..... pretty wide imo. I will sacrifice little over a third of my stack in this spot.

Keep out the 2nd stack though.

Hobbes

^^^^^
This

GTA Poker

This isn't really a "spot" unless you have some compelling data on the open shover it's a snap shove. This is a poker tournament and the opener could have lots of things, but you have to risk your chips sometime and you are likely way ahead of his range.

I would put his range at 22-QQ, A2-AK, KT-KQ at this level without any more info. Notice I left out AA, KK. I would shove those hands as well for deception, but most players at these limits will throw in a min to standard raise for value with those hands.

Someone else can run the numbers if they want, but it will turn into an obv snap shove.

What range of hands did you put him on at the time?

[deleted]

pele1515;296706 wroteya? Couldn't villian easily have QQ+ , AK, AQ? Is a race necessary here?

yes we are racing with the hand vs hand equity if he is that two, however, when when we add the extra antes and blinds this will push us into the snap calling range.

Also the villain is absolutely wider than this he will have tt sometimes, ajs, and rarer but still 99 ajo and kqs. You always have to take your reasonable range and add some bluff or weird hands, so 42/57 is pretty conservative......

[ATTACH]1046[/ATTACH]

one we know we are on the plus side then yes we will 'race', and never think about folding

Hobbes

Add in the possibility too that he does not ship AA/KK.

GTA Poker

darbday;296733 wroteyes we are racing with the hand vs hand equity if he is that two, however, when when we add the extra antes and blinds this will push us into the snap calling range.

Also the villain is absolutely wider than this he will have tt sometimes, ajs, and rarer but still 99 ajo and kqs. You always have to take your reasonable range and add some bluff or weird hands, so 42/57 is pretty conservative......

[ATTACH]1046[/ATTACH]

one we know we are on the plus side then yes we will 'race', and never think about folding

I think that's a super tight range

pele1515

GTA Poker;296739 wroteI think that's a super tight range

I disagree, I agree with that range

Now don't get me wrong here I thought about folding for like a split second but thought better of it. I was just curious what you guys thought or if I even need to race in this spot with one left to act.

Heres how the rest played out.

StormBerry: calls 3679
Escapemylove: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d 2s Jh]
*** TURN *** [3d 2s Jh] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [3d 2s Jh 3h] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
StormBerry: shows [Jd Js] (a full house, Jacks full of Threes)
cris&tani18: shows [Ad 6d] (a pair of Threes)
StormBerry collected 8158 from pot
cris&tani18 finished the tournament in 57th place

[deleted]

pele1515;296741 wroteI disagree, I agree with that range

StormBerry: calls 3679
Escapemylove: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d 2s Jh]
*** TURN *** [3d 2s Jh] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [3d 2s Jh 3h] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
StormBerry: shows [Jd Js] (a full house, Jacks full of Threes)
cris&tani18: shows [Ad 6d] (a pair of Threes)
StormBerry collected 8158 from pot
cris&tani18 finished the tournament in 57th place

you're possibly lacking a fundamental in your definition of 'range' ^-^

Hobbes

The flat was bad. You just put over 40% of your stack in.
You really don't want another coming for the ride.

pele1515;296741 wroteI disagree, I agree with that range

Now don't get me wrong here I thought about folding for like a split second but thought better of it. I was just curious what you guys thought or if I even need to race in this spot with one left to act.

Heres how the rest played out.

StormBerry: calls 3679
Escapemylove: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d 2s Jh]
*** TURN *** [3d 2s Jh] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [3d 2s Jh 3h] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
StormBerry: shows [Jd Js] (a full house, Jacks full of Threes)
cris&tani18: shows [Ad 6d] (a pair of Threes)
StormBerry collected 8158 from pot
cris&tani18 finished the tournament in 57th place

Hellmuth's Mole

pele1515;296741 wroteI disagree, I agree with that range

Now don't get me wrong here I thought about folding for like a split second but thought better of it. I was just curious what you guys thought or if I even need to race in this spot with one left to act.

Heres how the rest played out.

StormBerry: calls 3679
Escapemylove: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d 2s Jh]
*** TURN *** [3d 2s Jh] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [3d 2s Jh 3h] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
StormBerry: shows [Jd Js] (a full house, Jacks full of Threes)
cris&tani18: shows [Ad 6d] (a pair of Threes)
StormBerry collected 8158 from pot
cris&tani18 finished the tournament in 57th place

Not sure why you'd disagree with a wide open range, he just showed you.

Flatting here is the real risk. Letting Escapemylove have a chance to come along at 3/1 for the flop for half his stack and a chance at a 12k pot.

It would have turned out ok for you here (aside from pocket 3's) but I think they call that results oriented thinking.

[deleted]

i think we can flat pre as long as we never fold post, i don't mind the extra guy coming along, its money in our pocket but i would rather shove to sort of look weaker, flatting looks scarier?

Hellmuth's Mole

Scary flatting? If I'm sitting behind with AK, AQ even KQ I'm thinking this is a chance to see a flop and break some hearts. Have to be looking to chip up in places like that.

pele1515

really? a chance to break some hearts for half your stack lol? Also this is a 180 with about 57 left if that would change things, but imo its not a time you want to be SS.

GTA Poker

pele1515;296741 wroteI disagree, I agree with that range

Now don't get me wrong here I thought about folding for like a split second but thought better of it. I was just curious what you guys thought or if I even need to race in this spot with one left to act.

Heres how the rest played out.

StormBerry: calls 3679
Escapemylove: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d 2s Jh]
*** TURN *** [3d 2s Jh] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [3d 2s Jh 3h] [8d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
StormBerry: shows [Jd <acronym title="JavaScript">Js</acronym>] (a full house, Jacks full of Threes)
cris&tani18: shows [Ad 6d] (a pair of Threes)
StormBerry collected 8158 from pot
cris&tani18 finished the tournament in 57th place

How can you disagree with my range when he showed the bottom of what I described as his range?

[deleted]

Hellmuth's Mole;296748 wroteScary flatting? If I'm sitting behind with AK, AQ even KQ I'm thinking this is a chance to see a flop and break some hearts. Have to be looking to chip up in places like that.

you cannot see a flop for 10bbs . If you put 10bbs in you have to call, so if your opp in the bb wants to see a flop with ak and fold every time he doesn't hit, then we are very very happy

if i think the bb was bad enough to flat 10bbs and then fold on a flop he missed then i would always flat and jam any flop that i didn't hit a set on

pele1515

GTA Poker;296752 wroteHow can you disagree with my range when he showed the bottom of what I described as his range?

Just my opinion. You were right in this spot yes. But in the future I will have him on the more conservative (tighter) range.