Optimal?

Richard~

I've already showed you in pure numbers how this is not optimal in this spot, I've told you you were right and I've deducted that with 18BB's if we can commit a large % of his stack pre wide a wide range THEN it will likely be optimal.

That said, if he calls pre with the intention of playing fit or fold we're as you would say, printing money

[deleted]

betrthanphil;295968 wroteThere is post flop play, a guy can decide to pay the 750 with the idea that no matter what comes on the flop the other guy will shove the 550 therefore if he misses maybe he folds.....

neither are capable of this level of thinking

betrthanphil;295968 wrote I can maybe get behind this with kk or AA but even then any hand that will call the 750 will prob call the 1200....

I think in this spot 88 is AA, and the read is he will fold his junk to a shove. No idea whats going through his mind

betrthanphil;295968 wrote.and it is result oriented, how many people do you see doing this with q7?

only this player

betrthanphil;295968 wrote If you have more of a sample to show me that by all means show it.

my sample is that in all my hands ive never attempted this, but this is why its a fun brag, i could be right, but we'll never really know

btp is right i mean this should never be more optimal but really this is a 1 in 10k hands spot. i just didn't want to say it like that because ive been experimenting a little with monsters this way vs fish...but i think this is different and takes a certain person to do it against....

if i had to take a side, id tell people don't ever do this, but i stand behind it here.

betrthanphil

Then what are we arguing about? lol

betrthanphil

darbday;295974 wroteneither are capable of this level of thinking

I think in this spot 88 is AA, and the read is he will fold his junk to a shove. No idea whats going through his mind

only this player

my sample is that in all my hands ive never attempted this, but this is why its a fun brag, i could be right, but we'll never really know

btp is right i mean this should never be more optimal but really this is a 1 in 10k hands spot. i just didn't want to say it like that because ive been experimenting a little with monsters this way vs fish...but i think this is different and takes a certain person to do it against....

if i had to take a side, id tell people don't ever do this, but i stand behind it here.

ok...Id still rather try to pick up the chips or make him call it off pre which he prob would've done anyways. I can slide my opinion a little more to your side with this detail but still will shove rather then flirt with danger lol

Richard~

my instinct told me this would be optimal, I think we're arguing cause I got this across to you as "my instinct told me he didn't have two overs" but I dunno lol

And darb, I showed you that in order for this to be optimal, if he's always calling postflop, we need 71% equity vs him preflop. Our 8s probably don't have that

[deleted]

Richard~;295979 wrotemy instinct told me this would be optimal, I think we're arguing cause I got this across to you as "my instinct told me he didn't have two overs" but I dunno lol

And darb, I showed you that in order for this to be optimal, if he's always calling postflop, we need 71% equity vs him preflop. Our 8s probably don't have that

i couldn't wrap my head around it..i need a refresher

is this the same as you were saying?

Shoving:

_% of times he folds we pick up everything

1-_% of times he calls and we flip vs his tighter calling range for 2x our stack plus dead money

random overlimper calls x% of time

trapping:

we get it in vs almost all of his initial range for 2x our stack plus dead money

random overlimper calls slightly less?

Richard~

actually the range he calls a shove with is irrelivant since we're getting it in vs that range no matter how we play it. I analysed the portion of his range which reacts differently to us shoving vs calling

what I did was named the cutoff equity x and set it up as

(our stack + our stack + dead money in pot) * x + (-our stack (cause we'd lose it)) * (1-x)

this should be greatar than the 350 chip pickup if we shove so

our expression > our stack + 350

then I just solved for x

What this means is that unless we have 71% equity vs his calling range, we're better off just picking up the 350 chips preflop

[deleted]

Richard~;295983 wroteactually the range he calls a shove with is irrelivant since we're getting it in vs that range no matter how we play it.

if we shove pre hes folding alot of it and we need it to determine how much he folds no???

Richard~;295983 wrote, we're better off just picking up the 350 chips preflop

theres no picking up 350 tho because we also have to flip vs his calling range?

Richard~

darbday;295984 wroteif we shove pre hes folding alot of it and we need it to determine how much he folds ???

but this isn't really a question of how much he folds. cause the range he's not folding, that range we're always going up against, no matter if we shove or raise

[deleted]

Richard~;295985 wrotebut this isn't really a question of how much he folds. cause the range he's not folding, that range we're always going up against, no matter if we shove or raise

not sure whats going on here lol,....but his calling ranges are different if i shove or only raise...

Richard~

darbday;295986 wrotenot sure whats going on here lol,....but his calling ranges are different if i shove or only raise...

yes, but that's the only thing that's different. The range he's calling your shove with has no impact on whether or not this is optimal. The only range that's important to deduce that is the range he's folding to your shove but calling vs your raise

[deleted]

Richard~;295988 wroteyes, but that's the only thing that's different. The range he's calling your shove with has no impact on whether or not this is optimal.

it determines how often we pick up dead money?

Richard~

darbday;295991 wroteit determines how often we pick up dead money?

think about it, it will come to you :P

« Previous Page