Official Blue Jays Discussion thread

moose

If they hadn't traded for 4 starters - Rogers, Dickey, Johnson, and Buerhle, considering they have already used 13 different starters, 14 by tomorrow - exactly who would they have used instead? Surely you don't believe that the A ball pitchers they traded away would be starting?

You have to be joking if you think they are where they are because of the players they traded away. The trades may not have worked out but they certainly did not make the team worse.

Arencibia sucks so losing darnaud certainly hurts but he has a broken foot so he wouldn't be with the big club anyways. Dickey at 8.5m a year is still a huge bargain. Any other #1 or even #2 would have started at 15m minimum IF AA could have gotten a FA to sign, which I doubt. Even the qualifying offer to Johnson at the end of the year is on the order of 11.5m.

The entire FLA trade I would do in a second just to get Reyes. FLA got the equivalent of a bag of balls back. The fact that Buerhle is still Buerhle is a bonus and rest were throw-ins with upside that unfortunately have shit the bed.

Prospects are just prospects. AA held on to Gose because he was the closest to the majors and yet he has been lost in space this year at Buffalo.

All our best parts will still be under contract next year and the shitty parts will be gone. Yes things didn't go great this year but the key players are all under contract for the next three years. By that time all our pitchers out with surgery will be available to play or trade and new hotshot prospects will be coming down the pipeline. The fact that this was all achieved without giving up any of our key major league roster players was a stroke of brilliance by AA

The Prophet 22

Rob, you do realize their record is worst than it was last year on this date right? And they raise the payroll by 40 million to drop one spot. Correct? And they will finish in last place this year barring a collapse from Tampa. And you think AA is a genius?

How is it Texas is living without Hamilton and the Cards are living without Pujols?

If you think it is bad luck, ok. But every roster has injuries. The good teams know how to deal with them.

Until there is a change in philosophy this team will not be in the playoffs! I seriously doubt AA will be here when they finally get back there. No playoffs for the three you mention that they have the so called good guys under contract. Care to make it interesting Rob?

moose

I don't see how you can look at the record this year and say it is AA's fault and their philosophy is wrong that they are not building from within. AA did not trade away anyone who would be on the major league roster right now. So it is AA's fault that we have a worse record because those minor leaguers are gone?

You realize that we don't have a single starter left still pitching for the Jays from the end of last season. I don't see how any team can lose their entire starting rotation due to injury/shittiness one season to the next and be better than the previous year. 14 different starters this season. The greatest gm in the history of baseball didn't 14 different major league ready starters just sitting around on the 40 man roster.

Nevertheless you can name any two players you would rather have back that AA traded away. You can't name one because I'll just pick Reyes. Even though it's six months after the trade, you can pick any two you like, then I'll give you two years and we'll still have Reyes and he will still be better than the two shitbags you name.

Wetts1012

The Prophet 22;355461 wroteRob, you do realize their record is worst than it was last year on this date right? And they raise the payroll by 40 million to drop one spot. Correct? And they will finish in last place this year barring a collapse from Tampa. And you think AA is a genius?

Bartolo Colon has more wins than Justin Verlander, clearly Mr. Colon is a superior pitcher.

Talent and statistics are not mutually exclusive.

The Prophet 22

Wetts1012;355475 wroteBartolo Colon has more wins than Justin Verlander, clearly Mr. Colon is a superior pitcher.

Talent and statistics are not mutually exclusive.

Really. Nice comparison. I noticed you didn't compare him to Morrow or Santos two of AA "genius" picks. Which Mr. Colon is clearly the better pitcher.

djgolfcan

The Prophet 22;355552 wroteReally. Nice comparison. I noticed you didn't compare him to Morrow or Santos two of AA "genius" picks. Which Mr. Colon is clearly the better pitcher.

Please provide the alternative pitchers that were available besides Morrow and Santos.

The Prophet 22

moose;355453 wroteIf they hadn't traded for 4 starters - Rogers, Dickey, Johnson, and Buerhle, considering they have already used 13 different starters, 14 by tomorrow - exactly who would they have used instead? Surely you don't believe that the A ball pitchers they traded away would be starting?

You have to be joking if you think they are where they are because of the players they traded away. The trades may not have worked out but they certainly did not make the team worse.

Arencibia sucks so losing darnaud certainly hurts but he has a broken foot so he wouldn't be with the big club anyways. Dickey at 8.5m a year is still a huge bargain. Any other #1 or even #2 would have started at 15m minimum IF AA could have gotten a FA to sign, which I doubt. Even the qualifying offer to Johnson at the end of the year is on the order of 11.5m.

The entire FLA trade I would do in a second just to get Reyes. FLA got the equivalent of a bag of balls back. The fact that Buerhle is still Buerhle is a bonus and rest were throw-ins with upside that unfortunately have shit the bed.

Prospects are just prospects. AA held on to Gose because he was the closest to the majors and yet he has been lost in space this year at Buffalo.

All our best parts will still be under contract next year and the shitty parts will be gone. Yes things didn't go great this year but the key players are all under contract for the next three years. By that time all our pitchers out with surgery will be available to play or trade and new hotshot prospects will be coming down the pipeline. The fact that this was all achieved without giving up any of our key major league roster players was a stroke of brilliance by AA

I thought AA was different from his predecessor but clearly he is not!!! He is a carbon copy!!! The Jays will not make the playoff under AA reign without some drastic intervention from Beeston. AA has thrown huge amounts of money at the problem and the team is worst. Anyone who understands baseball has the understanding of how to deal with injuries. Clearly the Jays have not figured this part out yet. Only once they do, will they be ready to make the playoffs again.

Rob, you are correct, I love Reyes. The point is AA could have got him for only the money he wanted and did not have to give up the players he did. I am not convinced that Adeiny Hechavarria will not be a big leaguer. It could be a case of Esteban Loaiza for Michael Young situation. I applaud he wanted to make a splash. But we had a losing record. It is a rare occasion that a team will improve by 20 games over the previous season (Boston will do it this year). I believed he panicked. I still believe the Jays will not win 87 games this year for me to lose my bet.

The Prophet 22

djgolfcan;355553 wrotePlease provide the alternative pitchers that were available besides Morrow and Santos.

Morrow as a trade to Seattle for League and Santos was a hurt free agent that Chicago did not want that we over paid for who we ourselves let go the year before. Gose is his prize that still hasn't cracked the line up. When will he? Whose spot is he going to take? What is the plan? This is why I think he has panicked.

JohnnieH

What other last place team do you know that has 3 players (maybe 4) going to the All-Star game, including one (Joey Bats) whom will start?

This team has talent. Winning 11 straight proves it. The hitting is just to streaky to be serious contenders in the AL East. They are red hot one night, then ice cold the next. The pitching for the most part (esp the bullpen) has been very good. I wish they could hit more consistently, they wouldn't lose so many close games.

I agree that 87 wins is unlikely at this point, but if (I know, a huge if) we start to really hit and cash in runs I think the Jays would fly up the standings into a playoff spot.

moose

The Prophet 22;355552 wroteReally. Nice comparison. I noticed you didn't compare him to Morrow or Santos two of AA "genius" picks. Which Mr. Colon is clearly the better pitcher.

Wait, Morrow who was traded for League and Santos who was traded for Nestor Molina? Honestly WTF are you talking about?

Molina this year was DEMOTED from AAA to AA. Yes, his 4 AA starts this year are EXACTLY what we need.

League who is being paid by the Dodgers to blow saves with a 6.16 era? Yep, not having him has kept us a couple games below .500, because with him we would be at least 4 games under.

Hobbes

Interesting article is the numbers pan out.

Hayhurst: Blue Jays should trade Janssen now - Sportsnet.ca

moose

While it is true that saves are overrated, I don't think Gibber treats him as a closer, rather that every person in the bullpen has a specific role and is better able to prepare knowing when they are likely to enter a ball game. While the numbers say you use your best pitcher in the highest leverage situation, we can recall what a mess the bullpen was last year when Farrell had not clearly defined everyone's role.

You could say that some of our bullpen success IS because Janssen goes last whereas some of the pitchers with better stats like Delabar and Cecil are going in earlier into the higher leverage situations.

moose

moose;355449 wroteLast place Jays score three at ASG.

Bautista, EE and Cecil

Delabar up on last man fan vote:

2013 All-Star Game Final Vote | MLB.com: Events

It's tweeting Tuesday and along with that, well, THIS:

On Tuesday, the partnership went into full swing. When fans vote for both Delabar and Freeman on the ballot through midnight ET, they will be entered for a chance to win one of six baseballs signed by both players.
Now in its 12th year, the 2013 All-Star Game Final Vote sponsored by freecreditscore.com gives baseball fans around the world the opportunity to select the final player on each All-Star team. Balloting began immediately following Saturday's Major League All-Star Selection Show presented by Taco Bell and ends Thursday at 4 p.m. ET. The winners will be announced on MLB.com shortly thereafter.

There will be an extra treat for fans who participate in the Final Vote online. If you are not a current MLB.TV subscriber (MLB.TV or MLB.TV Premium), you are eligible to receive a 14-day free trial of MLB.TV from July 12-26. If you are a current MLB.TV subscriber (MLB.TV or MLB.TV Premium), you will receive a 15-percent discount to the MLB.com Shop. MLB.com will send an email on July 12 to all Final Vote voters with instructions on how to redeem the applicable offer.

Mobile voting in the U.S. and Canada is open to everyone. To vote for Delabar from the US, simply text message A2 to 89269. In Canada, fans should text A2 to 101010. Standard message and data rates may apply.

The Prophet 22

REPORT: A-ROD, BRAUN, OTHERS EXPECTED TO BE SUSPENDED BY MLB. My guess is that Melky Cabrera will be on that list. Gose may get to play the rest of the season in left. MLB is seeking 100 games for all on this list.

If baseball really wanted to clean up the game they would do what auto racing did and start fining the owners 100 million and forfeiting all games won when that cheating player played in.

compuease

The Prophet 22;355610 wroteMy guess is that Melky Cabrera will be on that list.

While I agree in principal with cleaning up sports and drug use, I can't see Cabrera being included as he has already served a suspension and therefore unless he has re-offended MLB would open themselves up to huge lawsuits.. I'm sure their legal team would be well aware..

JohnnieH

Last night's loss is a prime example of what I was talking about.

Johnson throws seven innings of 3-hit ball, and the hitters can't produce any offensive support.

The Prophet 22

JohnnieH;355617 wroteLast night's loss is a prime example of what I was talking about.

Johnson throws seven innings of 3-hit ball, and the hitters can't produce any offensive support.

Totally agree with. Lets say for argument sake every team in the MLB is capable of winning 65 and losing 65 games. The season comes down really 32 games. That is why games in April matter as much as games in September and when you have the kind of record they did in April and May it ends up being to big of hole to dig yourself out off.

I didn't see the game, but you give up 3 runs you expect to win that game. Jack Morris made a career of it and one day may still make the HOF.

Muddguts

JohnnieH;355617 wrote
Johnson throws seven innings of 3-hit ball, and the hitters can't produce any offensive support.

JP Arencibia has a man on 2nd and 3rd and strikes out looking? What happened to the strategy of protecting the plate on close 2 strike pitches? I'd rather see him attempt to foul off a ball trying to stay alive then get punched out standing there watching a good pitch paint the corner.

The Prophet 22

Muddguts;355624 wroteJP Arencibia has a man on 2nd and 3rd and strikes out looking? What happened to the strategy of protecting the plate on close 2 strike pitches? I'd rather see him attempt to foul off a ball trying to stay alive then get punched out standing there watching a good pitch paint the corner.

JP Arencibia will not be part of a Jays team that will be in the playoffs! He is a triple A catcher at best!

The Prophet 22

The July 31 non-waiver trade deadline is looming Jays are 8.5 games from the playoffs. The next 10 games are Tampa 3, Dodgers 3 and Houston 4. How many win do the Jays need to be buyers and not sellers? If they go 5-5 do you trade EE, Joey Bats and Brett Cecil and whomever else for prospects. Or hang on and wait for the likes of Drew and Kyle to come back and go for it again next year.

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