The Official CRAPS Discussion thread

JohnnieH

See how much of a noob I am? I didn't even consider lowering (or raising) my odds. I always just put X2 behind the pass line no matter what. So far I have been betting $6 on 6 and 8, $5 on the pass line and $10 behind for odds, or $27 per roll. (Writing that down kinda shocked me. No wonder I lost $70 in a few rolls)

So should I always be taking the MAX odds then? I don't think I'm at that level of degen yet. Assuming I have $6 on 6 and 8, $5 on the pass line and $25 behind for odds that's $42 on each bet. Tough for me to gamble almost half my buy in.

Should I be buying in for more to ride the variance or not betting so much?

moose

If you want to play for a long time with $100, just place the 6 and 8. As long as you have action on the table before your turn to roll, they will pass you the dice. Then go nuts and make your $5 pass line bet and max odds when it is your roll.

Note: if the 6 or 8 hits then I usually take down my bet to lock in my winnings on that roll. If you let it stay then you have bet $12 and won $7 and if you don't hit another 6 or 8 before sevening out then you lose $5. If you hit the 6 or 8 and take the bet down, then you have $6 left on the table but you are up $1. Place bets can be taken on or off anytime you want. Pass/come bets have to stay until the point is made or seven out.

westside8

What Moose said - with $100 you can't justify putting $42~ out there on one roll. When it's not your roll, just place the 6 and 8, so you at least lock down $7 from the $12 on the table so at the worst you lose $5, and start doing a variation of 13Card's system where you should press/parlay up to the table max.

ReefAquarium

JohnnieH;256545 wroteSee how much of a noob I am? I didn't even consider lowering (or raising) my odds. I always just put X2 behind the pass line no matter what. So far I have been betting $6 on 6 and 8, $5 on the pass line and $10 behind for odds, or $27 per roll. (Writing that down kinda shocked me. No wonder I lost $70 in a few rolls)

So should I always be taking the MAX odds then? I don't think I'm at that level of degen yet. Assuming I have $6 on 6 and 8, $5 on the pass line and $25 behind for odds that's $42 on each bet. Tough for me to gamble almost half my buy in.

Should I be buying in for more to ride the variance or not betting so much?

If you're going to bet about $27 each roll...

Rather than betting $6 on the 6 and 8 (-1.5% => 2*$0.90=-$.18ev) and $5 on the pass line (-1.4%=> -$.07) and $10 behind on odds (0%=>$0.00) for an total expected value of (-$.25)...

Try betting just $5 on the pass line and putting more money in free odds, $20 or $25 or $26 in free odds. This way your expected value is only -$.07 rather than -$.25.

You get to gamble the same amount of money but you'll lose on average less than one third of the money if you cut out the place bets on the 6 and 8.

The will give you a better chance of winning on average.

ottawaplayer

Just saw this thread... thanks to those posting advice on the best odds/plays to make. I love playing craps... I was always aware of the house edge, but to me it is the excitement of the table and getting everyone to cheer for everyone else.

I used to play a ton of blackjack but it gets so boring... So, craps (and some roullette) are my gambling variances away from poker. I rarely made money, probably out of 10 sessions, 8 are losing sessions, but if you join a fun table, it can be a blast. I recall joining one table after dinner at the Bellagio once where everyone had been drinking and I was rather primed myself... the whole table had fun and several shooters had some heaters where everyone was doing well.

I would also mainly play the pass line and 6, 8, and 9. When I rolled I would throw out the odd $6 "seven on the hop" bet, pretending to sound like I knew what I was doing... When I was not rolling I often played the field, but I see that is a 44% chance of winning and only the 2/12 pay 2-1.

Hobbes

Thanks moose and seekthegrail for the craps lesson last night. So much easier at an actual table away from the casino.

westside8

ReefAquarium;256642 wroteIf you're going to bet about $27 each roll...

Rather than betting $6 on the 6 and 8 (-1.5% => 2*$0.90=-$.18ev) and $5 on the pass line (-1.4%=> -$.07) and $10 behind on odds (0%=>$0.00) for an total expected value of (-$.25)...

Try betting just $5 on the pass line and putting more money in free odds, $20 or $25 or $26 in free odds. This way your expected value is only -$.07 rather than -$.25.

You get to gamble the same amount of money but you'll lose on average less than one third of the money if you cut out the place bets on the 6 and 8.

The will give you a better chance of winning on average.

Nit ;)

Personally for rec players, I recommend spreading out their bets across more numbers and take the slight hit in EV but increase the enjoyment level.

ReefAquarium

westside8;256728 wroteNit ;)

Personally for rec players, I recommend spreading out their bets across more numbers and take the slight hit in EV but increase the enjoyment level.

I don't disagree with spreading your bets out across more numbers. I just think that using place bets is not the most cost effective way to make bets. Come bets are much better than place bets by far.

I'd rather use Come (-1.4%) bets rather than place bets to put money on numbers. Then I put full odds on the number (-0.326% for 5x odds). This is much better than placing the 5/9 (-4%) or 4/10 (-6.67%). It's slightly better than placing the 6/8 (-1.5%).

I try to put as much of the money I want to gamble on free odds as possible.

Winning money increases my enjoyment level.

Win more money/Lose less money. Don't make place bets. Especially avoid place bets on the outside numbers (the 5/9 or 4/10).

moose

13CARDS;255090 wrotePlace either the 6 or 8 for $18.
When it hits, take the $21. You are now freerollin' up $3, even if your Place Bet loses.
When it hits again, PRESS (which means "double") your bet to $36. Net +$6.
When it hits again, PARLAY (which means "add it all and let it ride") to $78. Net +$6 still.
When it hits again, GO TO (which means "make the bet look like") $150. Net +$25.
When it hits, PRESS to $300. Net +$50.
When it hits, PRESS to $600. Net +$100.
When it hits, REDUCE to $300. Net +$1,100.
After that, just PRESS everytime until you hit Table Max.

OR

Bet $1 on either Hard 6 or Hard 8.
If it hits, PARLAY to $10.
If it hits, PARLAY to $100.
If it hits, $1,000 and DOWN!!!!

I play the first way.

Got as far as the $150 tonight. We'll see how long it takes to get to the reduce to $300. (net $1100)

compuease

westside8;256728 wroteNit ;)

Personally for rec players, I recommend spreading out their bets across more numbers and take the slight hit in EV but increase the enjoyment level.

You mean there is someone other than a rec player at craps?? A pro craps player?

ReefAquarium

compuease;256884 wroteYou mean there is someone other than a rec player at craps?? A pro craps player?

Is that what they are calling hardcore degenerates these days? :-)

JohnnieH

What about making COME bets and odds? Good? Bad? Ugly?

moose

Come is same as pass.

JohnnieH

moose;257070 wroteCome is same as pass.

I know that. Do you play the come? How many times? Always with odds?

moose

Long term it makes no difference. A deep pocketed degen could just make a come bet with max odds every roll. Remember each roll of the dice is independent of the previous. The odds of winning will remain the same with each bet.

If I am running well I will make a pass line bet and two more come bets and place the 6 and 8 so depending on what rolls, I will cover as few as 3 numbers and as many as 5 at a time. Depending on how I feel I will roll that money off the table or replace winning bets with another come bet.

Otherwise I might make just one come bet or even just the pass bet. I think you have to mix it up - even though long term it makes no difference what-so-ever. But if you make exactly the same bets all the time it gets too mechanical and dull, which is why BJ eventually became too boring for me.

ReefAquarium

JohnnieH;257074 wroteI know that. Do you play the come? How many times? Always with odds?

Odds

Come (and don't come) bets are good because you can place odds.

I know this has been mentioned before but I want to emphasize.

The free odds bet is the best bet in craps. They aren't exactly free since you have to make a pass/don't pass/come/don't come bet.

You want as much of your craps gambling to be with a zero house edge as possible.
Combining Free odds with Pass/Come bets makes craps a lower house odds game than say, Baccarat (1.06%HA).

If you play pass/come DP/DC (1.4%HA) and you don't take odds, then you're better off playing Banker at Baccarat (1.06%HA) from a house advantage perspective.

You're better off making come bets with odds rather than making place bets on the 6 and 8 (1.5%HA).

Of course odds bets won't effect the expected value of your Pass or Come bets. They won't increase your chances of winning your pass line bets. The free odds are a good deal for money that you were going to bet anyways. So make free odds bets, rather than bet something else.

For example:

Make fewer larger come+odds bet combo's, rather than lots of little place bets on the 6 and 8.

Rather than Placing the 8 five times for $6, You're better off making a come bet($5) with full 5x odds for the same amount of money that you risk by making the place bets. So rather betting $30 total on five place bets and losing $.09*5=$.45, you're only losing $.07 on the come bet and nothing on the free odds.

The above also applies to the pass/don't pass/don't come bets with odds.

moose

Won $275 at BCC today. Played the 13cards press the 6 deal from $18 up to $78, hit it for the $150+ score then realized max bet was $100 so I took it off the table instead. Then the guy sevened out before it hit again so lucky me.

ReefAquarium

moose;259307 wroteWon $275 at BCC today. Played the 13cards press the 6 deal from $18 up to $78, hit it for the $150+ score then realized max bet was $100 so I took it off the table instead. Then the guy sevened out before it hit again so lucky me.

Nice hand!

Good timing taking it down at the right time!!!

moose

Craps table tonight was ABSOLUTELY SICK at BCC. Was on the way out and heard a great roar at the table so I swung by to have a pop and watch a bit.

Didn't want to play because I had ground out a nice win at poker after a losing craps session earlier. But roll after roll was hitting. People were betting table max all over the place and making thousands. One guy filled his entire rack and had to start putting the extra hundreds in his pocket. He had at least 10k in the tray. Saw another guy colour up 6k and put it away because the table was running out of hundreds. All the floor bosses were watching.

So I finally break down and buy in and of course I'm the only guy at the table to lose money because I only have 6 and 8 and this chick is rolling 4 10 4 5 9 10 4 10 9 5 roll after roll. She finally sevens and it was now 2:30 am and the table was supposed to close 30 min earlier. So everyone is begging and pleading to keep the table open so the floor decides to extend the hours.

Everyone starts going crazy and agrees to completely pass on shooting the dice completely around the table to give the dice back to this chick. I have never seen that before. Of course another great roll ensues so I make back my money and she sevens out after hitting the 4 and the 10 for me and I'm up $135 so I'm happy. But I've only ever seen them have to call for a table fill one time and this was so close. They literally had 2 stacks of purple left and about 6 stacks of black and the green, red and white were almost totally gone. I have not seen the box so empty of chips in a long long time. This chick was hitting every hardway and there was at least a grand riding on all the hardways, with one guy betting table max on every hardway. Totally nuts. I had the best time!

moose

My epic roll in craps tonight. Made six points. I use the purple chips to mark the points made. Played the 13cards press the 6 and 8 strategy. Ran the 6 up to $600 and hit it, reduced to $300 and hit again. Ran the 8 to $600 but didn't hit again. Varied the pass/come bets between $5 and $30 with 5x odds.

Winnings are stacked to the left of the $1s behind the stick.

I make it $3941 in winnings on one roll.

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