Live MTT vs Online MTT

[deleted]

Richard~;240520 wroteSpew imo, how often are we getting three folds here from panic stacks? It's like calling a 2x pot bet all in with a fd postflop, we know we're behind but we're putting it in anyway just because.

If villains are calling 20, 25 and 30% respectively we have like 38% equity when called. I'm having a hard time seing how it would be profitable to push wider than 50% here

can you not show this on sitngowizard? and know the perfect range?

Richard~

darbday;240522 wrotecan you not show this on sitngowizard? and know the perfect range?

I don't use that app, and even if you can the difference in value between a 20 BB and a 15 BB stack is far greater than the difference in value between a 20 BB and a 25 BB stack.

But sure, go ahead and do thtat, it's a pretty good idea. Just saying we need to consider more than cEV here. Especially live

compuease

BlondeFish;240515 wrote;)

Seriously, you originally stated that it had already been limped to you, which is what would make playing only 87s -EV. Now that you're saying that there were no limpers, then my questions are:
- What were the stack sizes of the puck and SB?
- Why did you size your raise to 3.4x?

For example, if the puck & SB only had around 2000 like the BB, I would have pushed ALL-IN with as little as 76s, 22+, Ax, K4s+, K9o+, Q8s+, QTo+, J8s+, JTo, T8s+ 98s, 87s.

Would like to hear what SirWatts has to say about this... :wink2:

Sorry, i guess that's where some of the confusion is coming from. I see now that I said "limped" to me. I meant folded to me. I did open raise. As for the amount, the button and sb had larger stacks than me, I didn't want to commit against them but did want the BB to realize I was committed vs his stack. Probably 1100 would have been enough but I really didn't know the BB very well. Oh, and who's that Watts guy, just some Wetts wannabe?

BlondeFish

Richard~;240520 wroteI'm having a hard time seing how it would be profitable to push wider than 50% here

In my specific example, I was pushing with only the top 33%. It all depends on the prize structure and relative stack sizes.

[deleted]

Richard~;240523 wroteI don't use that app, and even if you can the difference in value between a 20 BB and a 15 BB stack is far greater than the difference in value between a 20 BB and a 25 BB stack.

But sure, go ahead and do thtat, it's a pretty good idea. Just saying we need to consider more than cEV here. Especially live

i don't really know if i know what im doin.....but

it seems at 200/400..and 25 antes (had to have them for the program).....from the button with 10k looking at the sb with 2k and the bb with 2k (minus blinds),

as long as the small blind will play fairly tight (folding 99), then shoving 8s7s is a go with a .2-.3% edge almost regardless of what the bb's calling range is unless he's basically playing right down to 34o.

don't know if that relates or if i got it.....

then i pasted it to nash equilibrium and i have know idea what it means...

HoldemResources.net: ICM Nash Calculator

then i pasted it to nash equilibrium and i have know idea what it means...

Richard~

darbday;240593 wrote
as long as the small blind will play fairly tight (folding 99),

unless he's basically playing right down to 34o.

you're doing something wrong ^^'

[deleted]

Richard~;240607 wroteyou're doing something wrong ^^'

damn.....i fully believe you.....

fix it and show your homework or gtfo.....

[deleted]

PokerStars Game #50762937640: Tournament #318788527, $11+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (1000/2000) - 2010/10/07 17:05:25 PT [2010/10/07 20:05:25 ET]
Table '318788527 4' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 3: forboon (19537 in chips)
Seat 4: elvirastreet (28113 in chips)
Seat 5: scot-hils (11840 in chips)
Seat 6: allprowi (45528 in chips)
Seat 8: piotrczar (19840 in chips)
forboon: posts the ante 200
elvirastreet: posts the ante 200
scot-hils: posts the ante 200
allprowi: posts the ante 200
piotrczar: posts the ante 200
forboon: posts small blind 1000
elvirastreet: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to forboon [6d 6c]
scot-hils: folds
allprowi: folds
piotrczar: raises 17640 to 19640 and is all-in
forboon: calls 18337 and is all-in
elvirastreet: folds
Uncalled bet (303) returned to piotrczar
*** FLOP *** [Ad 9s 7d]
*** TURN *** [Ad 9s 7d] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [Ad 9s 7d 3h] [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
forboon: shows [6d 6c] (a pair of Sixes)
piotrczar: shows [8c 7c] (a pair of Sevens)
piotrczar collected 41674 from pot
forboon finished the tournament in 11th place and received $23.76.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 41674 | Rake 0
Board [Ad 9s 7d 3h Th]
Seat 3: forboon (small blind) showed [6d 6c] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 4: elvirastreet (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: scot-hils folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: allprowi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: piotrczar (button) showed [8c 7c] and won (41674) with a pair of Sevens

compuease

darbday;240671 wrote 11th place and received $23.76.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 41674 | Rake 0
Board [Ad 9s 7d 3h Th]
Seat 3: forboon (small blind) showed [6d 6c] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 4: elvirastreet (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: scot-hils folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: allprowi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: piotrczar (button) showed [8c 7c] and won (41674) with a pair of Sevens

not sure what your point is here... I can shove with small pockets but call, generally thinking best is a race? Don't understand... Did you have a read on this guy, was he pushing a lot? ie would he push A,5?

[deleted]

compuease;240679 wrotenot sure what your point is here... I can shove with small pockets but call, generally thinking best is a race? Don't understand... Did you have a read on this guy, was he pushing a lot? ie would he push A,5?

my point was mute, and always will be......just lovin the 78s thats all.....

PokerStars Game #50762918019: Tournament #318788527, $11+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (1000/2000) - 2010/10/07 17:04:56 PT [2010/10/07 20:04:56 ET]
Table '318788527 4' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 3: forboon (21737 in chips)
Seat 4: elvirastreet (28313 in chips)
Seat 5: scot-hils (12040 in chips)
Seat 6: allprowi (21464 in chips)
Seat 8: piotrczar (41304 in chips)
forboon: posts the ante 200
elvirastreet: posts the ante 200
scot-hils: posts the ante 200
allprowi: posts the ante 200
piotrczar: posts the ante 200
piotrczar: posts small blind 1000
forboon: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to forboon [Kh 9h]
elvirastreet: folds
scot-hils: folds
allprowi: raises 19264 to 21264 and is all-in
piotrczar: calls 20264
forboon: folds
*** FLOP *** [Ac 2h 8d]
*** TURN *** [Ac 2h 8d] [3h]
*** RIVER *** [Ac 2h 8d 3h] [Jd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
piotrczar: shows [As 5d] (a pair of Aces)
allprowi: shows [Ad Qd] (a pair of Aces - Queen kicker)
allprowi collected 45528 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 45528 | Rake 0
Board [Ac 2h 8d 3h Jd]
Seat 3: forboon (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: elvirastreet folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: scot-hils folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: allprowi (button) showed [Ad Qd] and won (45528) with a pair of Aces
Seat 8: piotrczar (small blind) showed [As 5d] and lost with a pair of Aces

compuease

lol, I missed the significance of that... I don't ALWAYS play 7,8 suited you know.. :)

piotrczar = compuease's alter ego....

[deleted]

compuease;240708 wrotelol, I missed the significance of that... I don't ALWAYS play 7,8 suited you know.. :)

piotrczar = compuease's alter ego....

its impossible to beat.....

PokerStars Game #50804281663: Tournament #319096258, $11+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2010/10/08 14:46:35 PT [2010/10/08 17:46:35 ET]
Table '319096258 17' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: aabbcccdd (4067 in chips)
Seat 2: DBT7 (470 in chips)
Seat 3: SirSwish6 (3695 in chips)
Seat 5: forboon (2798 in chips)
Seat 6: Player25SR (2940 in chips)
Seat 7: KamMoye (1505 in chips)
Seat 8: hogputter2 (2556 in chips)
Seat 9: remsass666 (1270 in chips)
SirSwish6: posts small blind 75
forboon: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to forboon [Th Kd]
Player25SR: folds
KamMoye: folds
hogputter2: folds
remsass666: folds
aabbcccdd has timed out
aabbcccdd: folds
aabbcccdd is sitting out
aabbcccdd has returned
DBT7: raises 320 to 470 and is all-in
SirSwish6: folds
forboon: calls 320
*** FLOP *** [3d 6h Jd]
*** TURN *** [3d 6h Jd] [4s]
*** RIVER *** [3d 6h Jd 4s] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
forboon: shows [Th Kd] (high card King)
DBT7: shows [8h 7h] (a pair of Eights)
DBT7 collected 1015 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1015 | Rake 0
Board [3d 6h Jd 4s 8c]
Seat 1: aabbcccdd folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: DBT7 (button) showed [8h 7h] and won (1015) with a pair of Eights
Seat 3: SirSwish6 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: forboon (big blind) showed [Th Kd] and lost with high card King
Seat 6: Player25SR folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: KamMoye folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: hogputter2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: remsass666 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

compuease

darbday;240739 wroteits impossible to beat.....

Hehe... now you guys have figured out my secret.....

philliivey

LOl, nice table mate you got there, sirswish6.;):)

Lord_Phan

I'm a live cash game player for the most part. I also do pretty well in live tournies for the most part aswell. For what it's worth, if you're going to play suited connectors, (which you should since they plus small pocket pairs are the most profitable hands in hold'em when played right) then you should raise. Everything is situational of course and in a tourney there are situations that don't occur in ring games. But the whole point of playing suited connectors is lost unless you get proper value for them. Ideally you WANT to get called by GOOD hands. When you miss, you can fold easily or if based on table image or weakness of your opponent you can continue bet and take the pot. You should be able to get away cheaply from them, not big raises, but standard raises which muck the hands you won't make money from and get calls or a raise from the hands you want to play against so you can get max value from them in the event you make your hand. If you get a flop of 6 9 10 rainbow when you're holding 7-8 suited, which hands are going to commit all there chips to you? AA KK QQ, A-10 Maybe, 66 99 10. limped hands arn't gonna pay you off enough to justify the play in the first place. imo

GTA Poker

Lord_Phan;240757 wroteI'm a live cash game player for the most part. I also do pretty well in live tournies for the most part aswell. For what it's worth, if you're going to play suited connectors, (which you should since they plus small pocket pairs are the most profitable hands in hold'em when played right) then you should raise. Everything is situational of course and in a tourney there are situations that don't occur in ring games. But the whole point of playing suited connectors is lost unless you get proper value for them. Ideally you WANT to get called by GOOD hands. When you miss, you can fold easily or if based on table image or weakness of your opponent you can continue bet and take the pot. You should be able to get away cheaply from them, not big raises, but standard raises which muck the hands you won't make money from and get calls or a raise from the hands you want to play against so you can get max value from them in the event you make your hand. If you get a flop of 6 9 10 rainbow when you're holding 7-8 suited, which hands are going to commit all there chips to you? AA KK QQ, A-10 Maybe, 66 99 10. limped hands arn't gonna pay you off enough to justify the play in the first place. imo

clap

[deleted]

Richard~;240607 wroteyou're doing something wrong ^^'

k how about this....?

antes 200/400

BEFORE BLINDS

BUTTON 10k
SB 2K
BB 2K

SB CALLS 5%

BB FOLDS 95%

YOU WIN (EQUITY VS. RANGE 30%)(CHIPS IN POT 2400) = 720
YOU LOSE (EQUITY VS. RANGE 70%)(2000) = 1400

BB CALLS 5%

YOU WIN (EQUITY VS. RANGE 23% )(4000) = 920
YOU LOSE (EQUITY VS. RANGE 77%)(2000) = 1540

SB FOLDS 95%

BB FOLDS 95%

YOU WIN (EQUITY VS. RANGE 100% )(600) = 600
YOU LOSE (EQUITY VS. RANGE 0%)(2000) = 0

BB CALLS 5%

YOU WIN (EQUITY VS. RANGE 30%)(2200) = 660
YOU LOSE (EQUITY VS. RANGE 70%)(2000) = 1400

total cev =.05[.95(720 + -1400) + .05(920 + -1540)] + .95[.95(600 + 0) + .05(660 + -1400)]

.05[.95(-680) + .05(-620)] + .95[.95(600) + .05(-740)]

.05[-646 + -31] + .95[570 + -37]

.05[-677] + .95[533]

-33.85 + 506.35

472.5

.

[deleted]

no i don't think im there yet....hmmmm

here too

http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/icmcalculator.html?action=calculate&bb=400&sb=200&ante=0&structure=1&s1=10000&s2=2000&s3=2000&s4=&s5=&s6=&s7=&s8=&s9=

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