STR82ACE
Looks like the plague of Short Stacking will soon be behind the poker world.
FT changed their minimum buyins a while ago, and now Titan and PokerStars have both implemented changes to their min buyins for cash tables.
Titan now has a 30bb minimum on ALL cash tables (used to be only 20bb, but its a good start), and PokerStars is implementing 40bb minimums on their next upgrade on all $ cash tables (euro games will still have 20bb minimums though it appears).
Even Cake has changed their minimums now, from 20bb to 30bb, much to the dislike of former P* boss now running the Cake room.
Good things happening everywhere in online poker. Only about time.
BiiLLY
now if only tilt and stars would take some sort of action against datamining
Hobbes
philliivey
yup, scoop event 12 is going to be a KO
derrickone
Minimum buy in should always be 100bb.
Milo
Strictly as an intellectual argument, why is eliminating a legitimate strategy seen as a "good" thing?
Just curious . . .
philliivey
knockout sit n go's, not sure on these yet and there is more coming, but if I knockout say 3 people and bubble due to some kind of standard BS, still get back something rather then nothing or I knockout no one and don't cash and lose more, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
What do you guys think?
Richard~
Milo;223746 wroteStrictly as an intellectual argument, why is eliminating a legitimate strategy seen as a "good" thing?
Just curious . . .
Because it's good for the game to let big stacks play deep stack poker without being held back by shortstacks looking to double up methinks. Same for omaha I'd like a 60BB minimum for everyone at the table or else it tend to be a much more straightforward game
trigs
Milo;223746 wroteStrictly as an intellectual argument, why is eliminating a legitimate strategy seen as a "good" thing?
Just curious . . .
it makes the game focus more on skill than luck, and therefore skillful players (like we almost all think we are) can win more.
STR82ACE
Most short stackers don't imploy any kind of formal strategy anyway. They are mostly playing scared and won't get involved in a pot without the absolute nuts preflop or on the flop. The ones that DO use a strategy are mostly push/fold preflop and hoping fate decides in their favour. There is no skill to it, mostly just luck.
The bigger issue is the number of them. You can't find a table on most sites without there being 4 or 5 or more short stackers on it and it makes it difficult to play the games the way they're meant to be played. For the full stack players, you don't get paid off with your monsters, and you don't get to try any new theories out during play because its often not worth the risk for such little payout.
Wetts1012
I <3 shortstackers.
Yea I said it.
The great thing about them is that most have no real concepts of how to shortstack effectively. So they wanna put it in with A10 and KQ. And they tilt the regs so the regs wanna look them up light and all hell breaks loose.
Eliminating them is bad for the game imo. Most are playing above their role and taking shots.
Wetts1012
philliivey;223750 wroteknockout sit n go's, not sure on these yet and there is more coming, but if I knockout say 3 people and bubble due to some kind of standard BS, still get back something rather then nothing or I knockout no one and don't cash and lose more, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
What do you guys think?
A little off topic but it depends. A good nit sng player will probably lose some roi because you are essentially taking from the actual prize pool.
Conversely, it opens the game up a bit.
Milo
Wetts1012;223772 wroteI <3 shortstackers.
Yea I said it.
The great thing about them is that most have no real concepts of how to shortstack effectively. So they wanna put it in with A10 and KQ. And they tilt the regs so the regs wanna look them up light and all hell breaks loose.
Eliminating them is bad for the game imo. Most are playing above their role and taking shots.
And, with this in mind, won't 30bb just become the new 20bb? In other words, haven't they just changed the definition of "short-stacker" and thus increased the variance factor?
You don't honestly think all those players are going away, do you?
STR82ACE
Milo;223775 wrote
You don't honestly think all those players are going away, do you?
Oh God, I hope not. Since they mostly don't have a clue, I WANT them deeper stacked at my tables. Gives much better implied odds. With 30bb, calling a 3xbet and hoping to hit your set or draw is now profitable, where with only 20bb, it often wasn't.
Richard~
Them playing with 10 BB's extra makes the game harder to exploit from a mathematical point of view. If they start reshipping 30 BB's light I'll be happy ^^'
Milo
Thus, over time, the games become even tougher . . . as the shorties go bust for larger amounts, a higher % would leave (rigged, broke), no?
And those that stay would improve, even if marginally.
Again, who gains long term? I think only the sites themselves gain a real advantage from this through the increased rakes.
I liken it to the changes OLG makes in their games. They boast about Lotto Max's bigger jackpots, but do not mention the decreased (overall) payout structure.
philliivey
Wetts1012;223773 wroteA little off topic but it depends. A good nit sng player will probably lose some roi because you are essentially taking from the actual prize pool.
Conversely, it opens the game up a bit.
yea just noticed that, it was late when I posted, sorry guys
STR82ACE
Sure some will leave the game, but I suspect most won't. Will it make the game tougher to beat? Probably, over time, but its been getting more and more progressively tougher for the past 10years or so, and I doubt that trend will change no matter what.
The sites actually prefer short stackers, and most are only reluctantly increasing their minimum buyins. This move in particular is based more on customer requests saying DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS than the profit lines of the sites. Long term though, I don't think they'll suffer much if any at all.
philliivey
Wetts1012;223772 wroteI <3 shortstackers.
Yea I said it.
The great thing about them is that most have no real concepts of how to shortstack effectively. So they wanna put it in with A10 and KQ. And they tilt the regs so the regs wanna look them up light and all hell breaks loose.
Eliminating them is bad for the game imo. Most are playing above their role and taking shots.
I am with you, I had no problem having shortstackers on a table, mind you I rarely play cash games but still most of them had no clue how to do it right.
ReefAquarium
Lots of good points have been made in this thread.
I find that the bad players often play in the shallow or capped games.
Both these formats blunt the good players skill advantage, but I've been playing them anyways.