Belwood Hand

Hellmuth's Mole

I'd like thoughts on this.

Down to 3 players. Pays $1200 for 1st, $770 for 2nd, $440 for 3rd.

Villian sits with ≈ 60k
Me with ≈ 50k
Other with ≈ 15k

Blinds are 1/2k. Other is playing like he's hoping we'll let him slide into second, Villian is aggressively pushing me around thinking I'm scared of making a mistake, while I'm desperately searching for anything to play back at him with.

Other folds the button, villian raises to 5k and I pick-up 3h4h ready to get funky and call. (first mistake??)

Flop comes Ah 5h As.

Villian c-bets (as always) 5k. I call (second mistake??)

Turn comes 2c for my straight. Villian checks and I hollywood for a bit before betting 10k. Villian calls. (more mistakes here?)

I'll wait for some gangbangathon before posting outcome.

Kristy

sorry about the fh. :(

Kristy

edit my edit^^ you didn't even get 'frisky' with the 3/4ss you called..ew.

Hellmuth's Mole

Kristy_Sea;208012 wrotesorry about the fh. :(

This is?

Kristy_Sea;208013 wroteedit my edit^^ you didn't even get 'frisky' with the 3/4ss you called..ew.

I know I know, but I was 110% sure I was seeing a free river.

JimmyHo

probably call with 2k already in the pot; your down to three so you have to start playing hands. I likely push on that flop. Would he likely check his ace or C-bet? If he calls, you have plenty of outs and get to see two more cards. I wouldn't make it to the turn. Either I fold or push on that flop. Let him make the final decision.

Hellmuth's Mole

pokerJAH;208015 wroteprobably call with 2k already in the pot; your down to three so you have to start playing hands. I likely push on that flop. Would he likely check his ace or C-bet? If he calls, you have plenty of outs and get to see two more cards. I wouldn't make it to the turn. Either I fold or push on that flop. Let him make the final decision.

There is 0% chance I fold that flop to a cheap c-bet. Why would I play those two to fold there?

Shove is def possible but there is also "Other" left who is letting us both pick him apart att. I can still get away from it later, and be OK, flatting the c-bet imo.

Wetts1012

What happened to your other 30K?

5K Pre.
5K flop.
You push 10K.

I have a very different opinion if you only had ~20K to start the hand.

Hellmuth's Mole

Sorry, bad terminology. I bet 10k into the 20K pot.

Kristy

Hellmuth's Mole;208014 wroteI know I know, but I was 110% sure I was seeing a free river.

fh=full house

Why are you sure you're seeing a free river.. if it is because he doesn't have anything..
neither do you..tid...you're not going to get paid off if you hit if he's weak and if he calls you've got a big draw. I don't really get waiting until the turn to bet..I think as played looks more suspect than say insta-raising hard on that flop...that's what I would do.

idk, gonna think about it more and come back.

Wetts1012

Got it.

Pre I dont hate a call here. We're talking 3K into 8K with position and still relatively deep.

I am definately not flatting the flop. Its a tricky spot because you dont want to raise enough where you commit yourself. If villain has Ax (btw Im leading that flop with Ax if Im villain) youre still behind with the draw. If you make it 12-13K villain is getting out of dodge with anything other than a hand that shoves.

If you ship the flop you're 40/60 best case scenario with any range that calls.

As played I ship the turn.

actyper

This is one of those scenarios where I don't mind a minraise on the flop.

Kristy

Wetts1012;208026 wroteGot it.

Pre I dont hate a call here. We're talking 3K into 8K with position and still relatively deep.

I am definately not flatting the flop. Its a tricky spot because you dont want to raise enough where you commit yourself. If villain has Ax (btw Im leading that flop with Ax if Im villain) youre still behind with the draw. If you make it 12-13K villain is getting out of dodge with anything other than a hand that shoves.

If you ship the flop you're 40/60 best case scenario with any range that calls.

As played I ship the turn.

idk, I don't think that you're folding getting 2:1 which is what it'll be if you raise to 13 and he shoves.

I'm debating which elicits more calls from the PP>5 type hands..w/e it is for this player (Big shove will be read as weak or he's a lagtard who will try to put pressure back on you etc.) is the correct play imo..since I don't have a fold here we may as well try and get as many into the pool as possible.

Wetts1012

Kristy_Sea;208033 wroteidk, I don't think that you're folding getting 2:1 which is what it'll be if you raise to 13 and he shoves.

I'm debating which elicits more calls from the PP>5 type hands..w/e it is for this player (Big shove will be read as weak or he's a lagtard who will try to put pressure back on you etc.) is the correct play imo..since I don't have a fold here we may as well try and get as many into the pool as possible.

It depends on how much personal value you put into the extra $330.

Personally, I gambool if villain ships and take my 40/60 shot at (basically) all the money. If he folds I just took the Cl anyway.

However HM stated he was concerned that the cripple was still in. Which makes it a little bit of a weaker spot to protect your position.

Hellmuth's Mole

Kristy_Sea;208023 wrote
Why are you sure you're seeing a free river.. if it is because he doesn't have anything..neither do you..

Shut down after flop call was automatic previously. He was not going to slow play an ace. No doubt imm.

Wetts1012;208026 wrote
I am definately not flatting the flop. Its a tricky spot because you dont want to raise enough where you commit yourself.

As played I ship the turn.

Agree 100% I should have shipped turn. Had visions of big pay day flying through my mind though.

actyper;208031 wroteThis is one of those scenarios where I don't mind a minraise on the flop.

This didn't even cross my mind. I wish it did. Another mistake.

Wetts1012;208034 wroteIt depends on how much personal value you put into the extra $330.

However HM stated he was concerned that the cripple was still in. Which makes it a little bit of a weaker spot to protect your position.

The $330 meant very little.

Not concerned that he was still there but aware that he was exploitable playing behind me. Just wanted to be live after the hand.

JimmyHo

Hellmuth's Mole;208037 wroteThe $330 meant very little. Not concerned that he was still there but aware that he was exploitable playing behind me.

You flop a flush/gut-shot combo draw and you are worried about the short stack, and $330 means very little to you? Make up your mind already.

Hellmuth's Mole;208037 wroteJust wanted to be live after the hand.

then you should have folded pre-flop.

Hellmuth's Mole

pokerJAH;208040 wrote
then you should have folded pre-flop.

Quite possibly.

As I played it most assuredly.

The exciting conclusion.

River is 2s.

Villian tanks and checks.

Your next move is?

Milo

Have not read the threads, but I would probaly have shoved into his C-bet with that flop. But, what the hell do I know about poker, anyway

blackmagicz

I guess a couple of questions come to mind.

Was villian c-betting everything under the sun? How was he playing his big hands - fast or slow?

I just really find it hard for villian not to build a pot if he has made a tight anywhere in this hand especially if you are betting for him. I mean if I was repping a fullhouse and I see you lead out on the turn I am check raising the crap out of you all day because technically at that point its for the tournament.

It looks as though the two scenarios play out:

1. Villian has AX and gets lucky on the river but then again for him to check the river makes no sense at all because he is not getting a bet out of a worse hand especially when you lead the turn and he flats.

2. Villian had some sort of pair and because you didn't re-raise pre he doesn't give you credit for AX because most people would be re-popping with AX or any PP especially that deep 3 handed. So it looks like a jedi mind game here and there is no way he can bet the river because if you shove on him he can't call and he wants a cheap showdown hoping you missed.

As played I ship the turn with a fist pump :) And then leave in 3rd place if he actually was playing AX....

syphilaids

Fold preflop.

4 high sucks. You need to hit 2 pair or a big draw to feel good about it. Better off playing hands that give you a better edge like 89 etc.

With 15000+ ante in the pot including his bet, and you have about 45000, Shove the flop. You don't have enough chips or a made hand to make cutsie plays. That being said, GSSFD I bring to war. If he flopped a boat good for him, otherwise we're not in bad shape. Villian will likely call with trip Aces or MAYBE a pp, in which we're drawing very live. However, most of the time villian will fold in this spot as he has no idea where we stand.

The main reason I say shove is because we need to see 2 streets of cards and as much money as possible in the pot with +EV results. This is the trouble with 34s. How much better of a flop do you really want to see?

So against the top of his range, against a flopped boat we're drawing to a 1 outter , 4% chance
Against anything else that can call us we've got 12 outs which should be the effective nuts, giving us a 45+% chance. Combine that with the pot odds, it makes the shove profitable
Your FE comes from hands that are slightly ahead of us like KQ, 88 etc. a Higher FD (which crushes us but I can't imagine Villian calling off 80% of his stack to chase it, as he has to put you on something)

After I turn the straight I just shove and pray he calls with a trips of 2 pair. An over bet shove is usually a "please don't call me" bet, hopefully he'll think so and snap you off. Then id throw my lap top out the window on the river.

Since you got to the river with chips, I'd just check it back. A boat isn't folding, and 2 pair isn't calling. Just check and see what he raised with.

Wetts1012

Hellmuth's Mole;208041 wroteQuite possibly.

As I played it most assuredly.

The exciting conclusion.

River is 2s.

Villian tanks and checks.

Your next move is?

Tricky. I check behind.

At this point youre only getting called by hands that beat you. I dont think you get paid off putting in a small V bet here.

Showdown value, ftw.