cadillac;170022 wroteI have a post in here somewhere where I comment on betting for information. Here is an excerpt, "This is why betting for information is a ridiculous statement uttered by morans who don’t understand the game. Don't be a moran."
Don't take that personally because it is not intended personally. It is intended to create an emotional response so that you can give your head a shake and come to a realization that you need to make.
Your bets need to have a purpose. You bet to get calls from weaker hands. You bet to get better hands to fold. You bet to build pots. You bet to take control of the hand.
So, betting to see how strong a persons hand is is wrong? That's interesting. I have never heard that before.
Given this, would you then suggest not betting pre-flop to narrow the playing field down, thus knowning what types of hands you are up against?
When you get called, you gain information. You may want to build a pot or take control of the hand, but the end result is you gaining information about what types of hands the player could be on. If you have a hand and you bet and the player doesn't fold, you know he is on a draw or something. This is information gathering.
How many poker books have you read? I have read a few. Not nearly as many as a lot of people here, but I would be willing to bet that most, if not all, of them talk about gaining information through betting.
If you bet and he raises you with this flop, what can you assume? Isn't that information gathering? Wouldn't you like to know that information so you can fold and lose less money?
Here is an example from a book by Matthew Hilger, who must be a moron for mentioning betting to gain information, even though he is a professional poker player.
"Try to avoid just checking and calling your borderline hands to the river since this can be much more expensive than gaining information early in the hand that might allow you to safely fold.
For example, you hold A♣ 4♣ with a flop of A♦ T♥ 2♠. If you bet out and an opponent raises, you can safely fold against most opponents. This is less expensive than simply checking and calling all the way to the river. If you are against many opponents, you might just check to see what your opponents do behind you before committing chips."
I realize this is with a 'borderline' hand, but you can also gain information about a player with strong hands that could be beat as well.
Why is gaining information by betting moronic? Can you explain further? i know that you bet for other reasons, but betting to gain information will help you make better decisions and save money in the long run. With you just checking this hand on the flop, you are simply letting him trap you. Bet and see where you stand.
cadillac;170022 wrote
If I start this hand with roughly 20BB how am I ever firing a bet on the flop, again on the turn, again on the river and folding to raise?
I guess the best thing to do is ease off on the river and cut your losses, especially with such a draw heavy board that he probably hit.
I'm thinking he has Ah-6h. Very possible. On the turn he has the A, he's on a straight and a flush draw.
Either way, you're right, there are two possible flush draws on the turn, a straight draw, and he has called your turn raise, which suggests he might have an A or be on one of those draws - the raise wasn't enough to push him out of the draw.
River hits. Now you're scared. If you bet on the flop, you would have been able to know more about the guys hand. Hopefully he's only on a flush draw and felt like he could take the pot down.
I would bet, find information, bet again on the turn, then ease off and cut my losses from OOP if he called, especially with that river card. I still think the pre-flop raise is the best thing to gather more information about the opponents hand. With this board, it will save you more chips in the long run. Now you're thinking "does he have something? Is he bluffing?" and you have a possible and likely straight out there, and the possibility that he has an A.
Again, this goes back to my moronic ways that betting to gather information about a player is a bad thing to do.