SnG - Card dead

_obv_

I think for most people playing 20+ tables wouldn't increase their hourly rate. I also think for most people jumping to a much higher level wouldn't increase their hourly rate. I do think that for most winning sng players playing turbos will almost guarantee an increase in hourly rate. Yes there will be more variance so downswings will be bigger but in the long run you will make more $/hour.

The fact that you say turbos are mostly push/fold necessarily-luck crapshoots makes me think you just don't understand push/fold poker and probably play way too tight when the blinds are high and are an easy target for a player that knows what he is doing.

m_dolens

_obv_;145876 wroteI think for most people playing 20+ tables wouldn't increase their hourly rate.

this is your opinion. many people play a hell of a lot of tables online and make a lot of money.

_obv_;145876 wroteI also think for most people jumping to a much higher level wouldn't increase their hourly rate.

this is your opinion. many people play levels higher than their bankroll should allow and they make a lot of money

_obv_;145876 wroteI do think that for most winning sng players playing turbos will almost guarantee an increase in hourly rate.

no one said you said so.

_obv_;145876 wroteThe fact that you say turbos are mostly push/fold necessarily-luck crapshoots makes me think you just don't understand push/fold poker and probably play way too tight when the blinds are high and are an easy target for a player that knows what he is doing.

and this just makes no sense. i merely stated MY opinion that push/fold poker involves too much luck (i.e. gambling) for my personal taste. why does that suggest that i don't understand push/fold poker. the name itself suggests it's all or nothing/lucks included/poker. that is, one will often have to push with nothing just to stay afloat against the blinds. that to me is highly influenced by luck.

again, i am stating MY opinion on turbos. i would appreciate if you didn't tell me that i don't understand how to play (certain versions) of HE poker merely because i don't favor them (since according to your reasoning, i could easily state that i know more about turbos than you do and that is why you think they are profitable - however, i would not make such a statement as this).

(i apologize if the above was voiced in a derogatory way. i meant no disrespect.)

_obv_

m_dolens;145889 wrotethis is your opinion. many people play a hell of a lot of tables online and make a lot of money.

you should be picking the number of tables you play that will maximize your hourly rate... i would say that there aren't more than a few people who have an hourly rate maximizing level of tables of 20+.

this is your opinion. many people play levels higher than their bankroll should allow and they make a lot of money

the people that play higher than their bankrolls allow don't make a lot of money... they go broke, unless they go on a heater then realize they are playing over their heads and then start playing within their bankroll/skill level

and this just makes no sense. i merely stated MY opinion that push/fold poker involves too much luck (i.e. gambling) for my personal taste. why does that suggest that i don't understand push/fold poker. the name itself suggests it's all or nothing/lucks included/poker. that is, one will often have to push with nothing just to stay afloat against the blinds. that to me is highly influenced by luck.

again, i am stating MY opinion on turbos. i would appreciate if you didn't tell me that i don't understand how to play (certain versions) of HE poker merely because i don't favor them (since according to your reasoning, i could easily state that i know more about turbos than you do and that is why you think they are profitable - however, i would not make such a statement as this).

(i apologize if the above was voiced in a derogatory way. i meant no disrespect.)

i'm suggesting you don't understand push/fold poker because if you did your opinion would be different because you would make more money playing turbos. there is nothing easier than being able to shove any 2 against someone that doesn't understand push/fold poker and will be folding pretty much anything... it is a pretty much risk free way of adding to your stack. I have helped some friends in low stakes turbo sngs and basically all they needed to do to be profitable was shove really wide ranges when the blinds were high... people just don't call as wide as they should be calling.

You are entitled to your opinion but my point is if you want to make more money you should probably be playing the turbo sngs

Also... with regards to this statement... "i would appreciate if you didn't tell me that i don't understand how to play (certain versions) of HE poker merely because i don't favor them" In my mind if you are playing poker to make money and you don't favor a certain type of poker it is for one of 2 reasons... either you don't understand how to play it or if you do understand how to play it you are more profitable elsewhere. Since turbos are more profitable the only reason for not playing them is because you don't understand how to play them

m_dolens

_obv_;145908 wrotei'm suggesting you don't understand push/fold poker because if you did your opinion would be different because you would make more money [this is stated as a fact obviously because it is your personal opinion] playing turbos.

consider this the final comment i'm going to make here because i think this is pointless. my post was stating that i just voiced MY opinion vs. YOUR opinion (i.e. you're not wrong, it's just your opinion) and then you accused me of just being stupid pretty much (i.e. i don't understand push/fold poker).

your above comment explains it all. your opinion is just the fact of the matter apparently and my opinion is just wrong because it's not your opinion. if i've learned anything in my life, it's that there's no arguing with this logic.

congratulations. you win.

BBC Z

chicken fight!

Redington

_obv_ is right. <=============period

the major advantage ev you can have right now in sitngos is knowing how to play at HBL (high blind level) not outplaying at LBL (low blind level)

Most people know how to play when the blinds are low by many fewer people know how to play properly when the blinds are high. It really is a different game and not many people know how to play here. This is the level when blinds represent 8% - 15% of your stack and it is where you win sitngos.

Yes sometimes you get good cards and play them well early to the endgame, but you rarely get the opportunity to gain so much more win +equity then the HBL of sitngos.

As more people learn the later stage sitngo strategy then maybe it will make sit n goes not as profitable as they are now.

The fastest way to get to this major area of maximum +ev is by playing turbos.

Redington

ReefAquarium

What's the best way to learn to play High Level Blinds?
I've already read Harrington ... and the two plus two forum... what else do I need to do?

InsaneGuy

ReefAquarium;146276 wroteWhat's the best way to learn to play High Level Blinds?
I've already read Harrington ... and the two plus two forum... what else do I need to do?

Yep.. I'm in the same situation as you...

zunni74

ReefAquarium;146276 wroteWhat's the best way to learn to play High Level Blinds?
I've already read Harrington ... and the two plus two forum... what else do I need to do?

Assuming this isn't sarcasm, (and I have no clue if it is or isn't) I've asked Graham to add a STT style forum for hand reviews and discussions of SnG play.
http://www.pokerforum.ca/f15/new-subforum-off-poker-strat-15502/

Show some support if you think it's worth having a separate area to discuss the STT gameplay mechanics.

ReefAquarium

zunni74;146300 wroteAssuming this isn't sarcasm, (and I have no clue if it is or isn't) I've asked Graham to add a STT style forum for hand reviews and discussions of SnG play.
http://www.pokerforum.ca/f15/new-subforum-off-poker-strat-15502/

Show some support if you think it's worth having a separate area to discuss the STT gameplay mechanics.

Not this isn't sarcasm.
I suspect the answer lies in sngpt and icm

zunni74

ReefAquarium;146381 wroteNot this isn't sarcasm.
I suspect the answer lies in sngpt and icm

I'm still learning about ICM but certainly have been made to think about ICM and push/fold gameplay by using SNG Wizard.

thathoser

what is SNG wizard?

Redington

ReefAquarium;146276 wroteWhat's the best way to learn to play High Level Blinds?
I've already read Harrington ... and the two plus two forum... what else do I need to do?

One of the best SnG strategist is Colin Moshman, I would look for articles from him. He also has a book Sit and Go Strategy and is a coach at a major online teaching forum. (if you interested in the forum let me know as there is a refferal discount)

You can also use software like SnGo Wizard which has an ICM and gives analysis of your play via hand histories. Showing where you should be pushing with positive EV.

A very solid understanding of positional play is also important. It is essential that you know when and how to steal. This is a play that a successful SnG person is going to be using 85% of the time when folded to in position.

BTW my ROI has tripled in the last 200 SnG's because of a true solid understanding of how to use escalating blind schedules to your advantage.

ReefAquarium

Redington;146573 wroteOne of the best SnG strategist is Colin Moshman, I would look for articles from him. He also has a book Sit and Go Strategy and is a coach at a major online teaching forum. (if you interested in the forum let me know as there is a refferal discount)

You can also use software like SnGo Wizard which has an ICM and gives analysis of your play via hand histories. Showing where you should be pushing with positive EV.

A very solid understanding of positional play is also important. It is essential that you know when and how to steal. This is a play that a successful SnG person is going to be using 85% of the time when folded to in position.

BTW my ROI has tripled in the last 200 SnG's because of a true solid understanding of how to use escalating blind schedules to your advantage.

Thanks for the detailed response!

I'm interested in the teaching/coaching...

Are you saying that you steal 85% of the time when folded to in position? What determines the 15% that you don't steal? (Board texture?).

Wow triple ROI.. that's huge!!! Congrats!

Redington

ReefAquarium;146656 wroteThanks for the detailed response!

Are you saying that you steal 85% of the time when folded to in position? What determines the 15% that you don't steal? (Board texture?).

This is preflop, it really depends on stack sizes, relative hand strengths and
defense frequency from the blinds.

If it is folded to me in the SB, I pretty much open push 100% in HBL, but from the CO or B it vareis more about table texture.

I will send you a PM with the refferal bonus.

T

m_dolens

i know that i posted earlier that i was done with this thread, but i recently had an idea that may be of consideration.

the argument was turbos are profitable because most people (i'm assuming that the argument is most people, if not, then i don't get the argument) don't know how to play push/fold poker (i.e. they don't adjust their opening hands enough - in turbos it's relative to the blind i'm assuming is what is meant by this). just thought that i'd suggest that this same strategy (i.e. taking advantage of people who don't adjust their opening hands) can also be used in shorthand sngs. therefore, you can eliminate the 'turbo luckiness' (i apologize if you turbo fans take offense to my wording), and still have the same advantage. just a thought ;)

Pantsonfire

m_dolens;147378 wrotei know that i posted earlier that i was done with this thread, but i recently had an idea that may be of consideration.

the argument was turbos are profitable because most people (i'm assuming that the argument is most people, if not, then i don't get the argument) don't know how to play push/fold poker (i.e. they don't adjust their opening hands enough - in turbos it's relative to the blind i'm assuming is what is meant by this). just thought that i'd suggest that this same strategy (i.e. taking advantage of people who don't adjust their opening hands) can also be used in shorthand sngs. therefore, you can eliminate the 'turbo luckiness' (i apologize if you turbo fans take offense to my wording), and still have the same advantage. just a thought ;)

I play turbos like cash games except for the first level. In deep or normal SnGs or tourneys, you can "wait for a better spot". However, in a turbo, like a cash game, if you have a small edge you push it. You can be a very successful player in turbos if you can fold when you are 45% and push when you are 55%. Most turbo players will take either side of the coin flip. I concentrate on the getting in on the high side, just like cash games.

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