st0neC0ldNutz
-ev;129827 wrote
I would agree with the staggered start times and doing some of the multi-tables at the higher buy-in until you are confident with the higher level.
Im still going to have to give staggered more of a chance. Would be nice to not feel so much panic when I am playing multiple HU or v.short handed at same time.
-ev;129827 wrote
Have you read Moshman's book? Highly recommended.
No. What is this book called? Where can I get it? Let me know. Thanks !
Marty Smith
http://pokerbookreport.com/collinmoshman.htm
You can read my review of that book here if it helps.
st0neC0ldNutz
Hey thanks Marty. I read your review. I did recognize his name from 2+2 from waaaay back I remember seeing it around there.
I have suggested to my girlfriend to by it for me for x-mas or B-day comin up.
st0neC0ldNutz
Update and other questions...
I am keeping up with my promises and posting my results. I have now finished my 100 SNG challenge at the $10 level.
Here are the results.
Buy-in: $10 + 1 (70 games on Stars, 30 on Full Tilt)
# games = 100
Total Profit = $421.00
Profit/SNG = $4.21
ROI = 38.27%
1st's = 21
2nd's= 14
3rd's= 11
Bubble's = 10
ITM% = 46%
First note: I notice I make so much more money on Stars vs Full Tilt, that I am now playing 100% of my SNGs there. Anyone else notice this huge difference between the sites and the caliber of players at the same limits???
Despite the advice, I am still starting all 4 games at once. Somehow I am still comfortable with this, but am noticing that I am very stressed at HU on 3 tables at once (when it happens) so I may try the staggered start thing still.
My ROI dropped a lot from $5 to $10 and I did notice the players were better - but there are still a TON of donks particularity on Stars.
I have started reading Moshmans book - so far so good interesting to get inside the mind of a guy who has played so much more than me and has done so well.
I am trying to figure out how many buy-ins I want to have in my roll before moving up levels in SNG's but the advice is all over the place! Seems that if you are going to do SNG's as a "pro" or for a living lets say, you should have at least 100 buy ins, if you are just playing for fun and dont care if you lose your whole roll you could have as low as 10-20 buy ins. So I am shooting in the middle - to have 75 buy-ins before I move up to the next limit. I am going to play another 100 $10 SNGs and if that goes well I will have enough to move up to the $22 SNGs.
I am wondering what to expect at the $22 level. As of this writing I use NO software to track stats (poker tracker) and I do not have a subscription to sharkscope either - basically, I am playing my opponents blind and am wondering at what level of SNG it becomes "worth it" to purchase these tools to gain an even bigger edge.
I am done blabbing.
Oh, and based on my stats should I move up to the $22's when my roll says I can, I know ppl will say the sample size is too low, but lets say it was repeatable (which I believe it is) is my ROI high enough? What are top players getting for ROI's at the $10 and $20 levels?
moose
I like your reports and your patience. Grinding it out at low limits is painful to the soul.
First of all I'm not sure it is the players that are different. I tend to believe that it is the structure that makes the difference. Out of the sites that I play Stars has the best structure for patient, skilled players. Players that play more of a pushbot type style can do better on sites that have shorter stacks and quicker blinds.
As far as moving up, you haven't shown any evidence that you can't handle higher limits. Again, I admire your patience. Why don't you try a stab at 22s rather than continuing to grind out 11s? If you had say 50 buyins for 11s (ie $550) left in your roll, you probably could recover and rebuild. If you have say 25 buyins for 22s over the $550, (ie you have $1100 in your roll), why not play them out and see what happens? If you sit down at 2 tables simultaneously, you are putting the same money at risk as sitting at 4 lower buyins and your concentration will be better. If you run bad and drop to $550, drop back down to 11s and rebuild.
For me, Sharkscope only very rarely helps me. It does not matter to me how successful a sng player someone is, as long as I feel I can beat them. Obviously you don't want to sit down at a table filled with sharks. However, it's value for Stars I feel is limited since the sngs fill so quickly. By the time you have checked out the names of 2 or 3 players, the sng fills anyways. I wish Stars would show the table as it fills for a couple of reasons.
1. you can negate some tougher players by having good table position on them.
2. you can read any player notes you may have on them before you sit down.
Right now, there is no way of checking your player notes before the sng fills and no way to control where you sit on the table.
PT pays for itself the first time you use it to influence your decision making process and it makes the difference between ITM or not. Waiting for the roll before buying it, makes no sense. As I said, grinding it out at low limits takes time, a hell of a lot of time. The more time you can save at the low limits to eventually get to your comfort level the better. If PT gets you there faster, then it is worth every penny.
st0neC0ldNutz
hey moose, thanks for the reply - i appreciate it.
you make some good points about sharkscope and stars games filling so fast, however, I have used it a few times to make calls for my tournament life - when someone makes a move I think is strange - if I see they are a -50% ROI donkaholic, I click call and it works almost every time.
However, I suppose I might be able to make those same calls with PT by just using different numbers combined with notes.
I may take a shot at the $22s, as you say if I knock down to 2 tables I am wagering the same amount as 4 $11's - but it does make me a bit nervous since I feel some of the success I have been having is due to the fact that I am 4 tabling and don't ever feel the urge to "get in a hand" because there is really too much shit going on and I have no chance to allow myself to get out of line!
Also you are right, I should not really treat the next level like its a big deal, I should just try it out and if it goes like shit, I'll just drop back to where I know I can make money - which I have no issue doing.
Cheers.
InsaneGuy
Great thread !
Gives me some good pointers as I feel I need to practice my SNG alot more (since I really suck at poker) so... I'll try to start some objective myself and see how it goes .. backstory :
Started with 30 bucks, 4 tabling turbos on starts (6 players one - 3.25$ buy-in) went up to 65 then dropped back to 50 rather rapidly ... I realised I was playing too high buyins for my BR since a couple of bad runs would put me out of business.
So... starting now (I'm at 50.40$) I'll 4 tables the 1.20$ 9 player sng non-turbo on stars until I reach at least 275$ (50 buy-ins at 5.50$ 9 players)
It'll take a couple years to get to 275 since first place is 4.50$ 225/3.40 = 66 wins without losses (which isn't going to happend, obiviously...)
Anyways... once I reach (if I reach) 275 I'll post my "results" hehe
I don't think there's any advice one can give at that level... players are horrible most of the time. :P
schabs
Agreed horrible players playing low limits....sick of playing them. Usually moving up creates more consistent play.
ReefAquarium
Listen to moose and buy Poker Tracker!
Also get a heads up display like PAHud.
ryanghall
On Stars, get to the 16s as soon as you can because the rake % is very low.
Also, add more tables because 8 tabling is really not hard.
Ryan
Sven
I have played a ton of 60's (9's) and 78 (6's) with a great deal of success. Unfortunately every time I move up to 115's I don't fare so well