Follow Up to the Seven Charged

Gamblor

The Prophet 22;124644 wroteFolded, definitely appreciate the comments. And yes, people are naive if they didn’t see this happening.

This generation has a chance to make a difference the way our government thinks.

In the early 1900s’ up until the late 40’s alcohol was illegal to serve in public establishments. The people put political pressure on the politicians of the time and eventually the law was abolish.

Steven Truscott was to be hanged in this country as a 14 year old boy for the rape and murder of 12 year old Lynn Harper, the year 1959. Today capital punishment is against the law, again the people put pressure on politicians and the law was change before Canada eliminated the death penalty in 1976

Henry Morgentaler In 1969 he gave up his family practice and began openly performing illegal abortions. Soon after in 1970 he was arrested in Quebec for performing one. This was three years before the Supreme Court of the United States legalized abortion in the Roe v. Wade case.

Morgentaler was charged again in 1983 in Ontario for procuring illegal miscarriages. He was acquitted by a jury, but the verdict was reversed by the Ontario Court of Appeal. The case was then sent to the Supreme Court of Canada. He was acquitted once again, and the Canadian Supreme Court declared the law he was convicted under to be unconstitutional in the case of Morgentaler et al. v. Her Majesty The Queen 1988 (1 S.C.R. 30).
This ruling essentially ended all statutory restrictions on abortion in Canada.

What about drugs? A recent decision in R. v. Long on July 13, 2007 in Ontario's Provincial court has struck down the cannabis possession laws in Ontario, and for the time being possession laws in the province cannot be enforced, essentially making it legal. Appeals have yet to be made. Does anyone not believe that we will one day be like Denmark where we have little cafes where you are allowed to purchase personal use of this drug?

Nice comments Joe

The people make the laws.

Prophet :2h :2s

PS Did you know craps use to be illegal in this country until just a few years ago because of some early laws

is alan young your crim prof?

Wetbrain

esool;124853 wroteWhen will your club be opening up?

Huhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

primetime21

Be careful what you ask for. Do you actually believe most of these so-called clubs would be open if they were legal. Then they would be legislated, have to pay taxes, probably have to hire professional dealers, provide security, etc. I highly doubt that many would be willing to do that. The province/federal gov'ts wouldn't allow these clubs to become legal without them being highly regulated, you can count on that. Either stick to the casinos or private home games. Do you really want the gov't involved in your business any more than it already is?
On a side note, is it any wonder that these places get busted, especially if they advertise that they are open on here. You really don't think LE wouldn't happen to take a look at this site or sites just like it on the odd occasion?

STR82ACE

primetime21;124983 wrote On a side note, is it any wonder that these places get busted, especially if they advertise that they are open on here. You really don't think LE wouldn't happen to take a look at this site or sites just like it on the odd occasion?

They wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't. That's not the point though. The industry is already regulated, much like liquor in the province is. If you want to indulge, you're welcome to do so, but ONLY LEGALLY from the places the government endorse. Everything else is not permitted. You're right though in saying if it were permitted, and taxes were being taken from the small clubs, most of these places would close up shop. Why? COMPETITION.

-ev

STR82ACE;124985 wroteYou're right though in saying if it were permitted, and taxes were being taken from the small clubs, most of these places would close up shop. Why? COMPETITION.

Not really. There would still be 'illegal' clubs, not paying taxes and not hiring licensed dealers.

Competition does not seem to be hurting the number of clubs that are out there now. Just enforcement and skullz seem to be making a dent but that is pretty weak.

FREE ROLL

September 5, 2007

The game of Poker has been around for hundreds of years. More specifically, Texas Hold-em has been played for many decades. Poker was first aired on TV more than 35 years ago and although it was interesting to watch for some people, it did not appeal to most because the audience did not know what cards the players were holding in their hands. In 2003 two major events happened to change all of that. The first was a new TV show called World Poker Tour, which used a new technology called a Hole Card Cam, which is basically a pin-hole camera that lets the audience know what cards each player is holding. The audience could now see the amazing bluffs that some of these players were making with terrible cards. The other event that took place was the airing of the 2003 World Series of Poker, which had also adopted the use of the Hole Card Cam. In this event an amateur player that won a $10,000 seat into this event through an on-line $40 satellite ended up winning $2.5 million dollars! The audience watched Chris Moneymaker, an accountant from a small town, take on a field of over 800 players, mostly professionals, and win, while only spending $40 to do it!
Due to these two major events the game of Poker has exploded in popularity and shows no sign of slowing down. You can now find Poker programming on every major TV station in North America and around the world. The difference between Poker and any other sport is that anyone that is willing to put up the entry fee can participate and play against the pros. That is not something you can do in Golf for example. You cannot enter The Canadian Open, pay an entry fee, and end up playing next to Tiger Woods.
The problem that we as Poker players have, living in the great city of Toronto, is that there is no legal place to play. We have to drive almost two hours north or south in order to play poker legally. Both Casinorama and Fallsview Casino Resort cannot handle the crowds. Both casinos only have 10-12 poker tables although they could fill 30-40 tables. They only have a certain amount of square footage to work with and they make a lot more money from slot machines and black jack tables than they do from Poker. Because of this there are huge waiting lists to play and it sometimes takes hours to get on a table. I believe the casinos take advantage of this and purposely do not expand their Poker rooms so that the players waiting lose their money on other games of chance in the casino.
Due to these circumstances hundreds of illegal, underground Poker rooms have opened up in the GTA. Most of these rooms are being run by normal everyday people and the players in these rooms are normal working class people. I personally have played at many of these rooms and have gotten to know owners and players. I have played with people from every kind of profession at these rooms, including lawyers, doctors, business owners, policemen and even a retired judge. As I’m sure you have heard, recently there were some police raids on some of these clubs and I happened to be at one when the raid occurred. 20-30 ETF officers in full riot gear and laser pointed machine guns blew through the door and scared the daylight out of the 40 players and staff of this particular club. All they had to do was knock, by the way, and they would have been let in. Luckily none of the players were charged and after we were all questioned we were released and the owner of the establishment was charged. The police could spend a lot of time and money doing raids similar to this one every week but it would only be the tip of the iceberg. There are hundreds of Poker clubs like this one in the city and even the ones that get raided often re-open with-in weeks at a new location.

The reason I am writing this letter to you is because I know you are leading the fight to open a full casino in Toronto. I don’t think that is going to happen any time soon but I do have some suggestions for you. The problem with Poker is that the criminal code considers it a game of chance when in fact it certainly is not. Luck can only get you those two cards but you have to know what to do with them. Knowing when and what to bet, when to raise, when to bluff, calculating pot odds and implied odds has nothing to do with luck but is a skill that comes with knowledge and experience. That is why there is millions of dollars being made with Poker books and instructional DVD’s. Bingo, on the other hand, is a total game of chance and you can find legal bingo halls all over the city. I have two suggestions for you that could rid the city of illegal gaming and also make incredible revenues for all levels of government.
The first is to open a 40-50 table Poker room at Woodbine Casino which would instantly shut down most illegal poker rooms almost instantly. The next idea is a little more interesting and I think is the way to go if you would like to create more revenue for the city of Toronto. You could legalize private Poker clubs throughout the city. The owners would have to be screened and bonded. Each club would have to pay the city a licensing fee every year. The dealers and other staff would have to take courses and pay yearly licensing fees as well. The revenue that these clubs make would be taxed so that the other levels of government would also get there piece. A percentage of the revenue could also go to specific charities or non-profit organizations similar to what bingo halls do. These private clubs would all have to operate under the same rule book and procedures including rake structure or session fees. These clubs could then do their own advertising and provide proper security for their patrons. The players would much rather play at a legal private club where they know they will not be arrested or robbed. The underground clubs would not be able to compete and would either have to apply to become a legal establishment or just shut the doors. This approach seems like common sense to me and it solves many of the city’s problems. Mainly, the city would receive a new stream of revenue and the crime rate would go down and the police would have a lot more time to pursue the real criminals.

I’m sorry for such a long winded letter but this subject is a real passion of mine and I also would like to see our great city of Toronto step out of the Stone Age and grow to accommodate its own culture. If you would like to get together for a coffee and discuss this in person, I would be very happy to do so.

Thank you! Manny

adave

There were legal charity casinos in the 90's. They hired professional dealers, paid taxes, donated a small portion to charity (hence the name) and a few had security. When Harris and his Tories made the C Casinos illegal, a few went underground. They stopped paying taxes and dealer worked for tips instead of wages.
The Toronto Sun also took a big hit. They lost 2 pages of ad revenue overnight.

moose

FREE ROLL;125243 wrote You cannot enter The Canadian Open, pay an entry fee, and end up playing next to Tiger Woods.

Duh it's the Canadian OPEN. Of course you can. Similarly the US OPEN.

http://www.thecanadianopen.ca/innerpage.aspx?x=h9NFgwewzybrbLCq45iX1aGKAIyPCENsOO7eFLH58Jyy664ruXDOdEMldy99DjkW

The Prophet 22

moose;125549 wroteDuh it's the Canadian OPEN. Of course you can. Similarly the US OPEN.

http://www.thecanadianopen.ca/innerpage.aspx?x=h9NFgwewzybrbLCq45iX1aGKAIyPCENsOO7eFLH58Jyy664ruXDOdEMldy99DjkW

Tiger won't be there though

AcidJoe

The Prophet 22;125550 wroteTiger won't be there though

Neither will Phil Gordon, or Daniel Negranu at the $160's or 1200's at fallsview....

BlondeFish

Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland licenses poker events. If enough people write to their MPP, maybe the same can happen in Ontario by the next election. See http://www.gov.sk.ca/news-archive/2006/5/31-445-attachment.pdf & Texas Hold'em Poker Tournaments - FAQ .

FREE ROLL;125243 wroteI have two suggestions for you that could rid the city of illegal gaming and also make incredible revenues for all levels of government.
The first is to open a 40-50 table Poker room at Woodbine Casino which would instantly shut down most illegal poker rooms almost instantly. The next idea is a little more interesting and I think is the way to go if you would like to create more revenue for the city of Toronto. You could legalize private Poker clubs throughout the city. The owners would have to be screened and bonded. Each club would have to pay the city a licensing fee every year. The dealers and other staff would have to take courses and pay yearly licensing fees as well. The revenue that these clubs make would be taxed so that the other levels of government would also get there piece. A percentage of the revenue could also go to specific charities or non-profit organizations similar to what bingo halls do. These private clubs would all have to operate under the same rule book and procedures including rake structure or session fees. These clubs could then do their own advertising and provide proper security for their patrons. The players would much rather play at a legal private club where they know they will not be arrested or robbed.

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