Playing against loose-aggressive players

redlude2k

I've been playing lots of 1/2 games around the city and have run into games with lots of loose players, who will call a preflop bet of $15 with A2 cause it was suited or 78 suit or will call a $40 bet for a flush draw.

Any advice on these loose callers? I usually have to bet to $17 or $20 to get these people out or overbet the pot so they don't chase. It is frustrating to say the least when you have lets say top 2 pairs and someone chases the flush or straight where they clearly don't have pot odds.

I know I've thrown $25 in preflop with AA and a guy calls me with J8, then i bet my all in for $60 more post flop and hits 2 pairs on the river (the guy had caugth maybe 2nd pair on the flop). I'm not known to bluff or play junk cards either. Its the "well why not" that bothers me.

I also know that the more I play against these guys, it should play into my favour, but when they constantly play questionable hands and hit, its discouraging.

Velvet Alley

i feel this way alot about the way poker is going. like you said it will play in your favor. This is my opinion but it may suit you as well.

1) play an ABC Game, tighten up and when you have the nuts, go all in. The game gets boring but you'll walk away with some cash
2) stop playing at those games. It takes awhile to find a group of players like yourself and respect the game enough to try and play as well as possible, but when you do you'll enjoy the game that much more when you can match wits with an apponent.

ScottyZ

The opponents you are describing are loose-passive, not loose-aggressive.

ScottyZ

BBC Z

Any advice on these loose callers?

Try not to drool on the cards. Deck changes lower the number of hands per hour.

redlude2k

Thes guys will also raise with 2nd pair, or top pair weak kicker or will bet their draws. And I mean they try to raise making it look like a steal. I know sometimes I have them beat, but I'm not willing to put in more $ if they outdraw me.

redlude2k

not sure if I will stop playing at these games, but perhaps tighten up and punish them when i have the nuts. it feels pretty nice to walk away with 5 bills by check raising them and taking their chips!

zero

Don't stop playing these tables. Just do what everyone said and tighten up. These jokers will pay your bills.

ScoobyD

I know sometimes I have them beat, but I'm not willing to put in more $ if they outdraw me.

If you know (or think it's highly likely) that they're betting their draw, try to get the money in on the turn when their odds of drawing out on you are much less favourable. Of course by not raising on the flop you may run the risk of giving them a cheaper card to hit on the turn.

Chugs

do me a favour, forward me the location of these games. (i'm saying that seriously, a pm would be great)

I think for a long time my thought process worked like yours, until i really comprehended that every time i over charged them to draw and they paid the price, i was making money in the long run. You are seeing the two times in the night when the guy hits his draw he 'technically' shouldn't have called. What you're not seeing (because he folds) is the 7-8 times he calls and misses and you win the pot.

In poker the goal isn't to win every hand, you simply will not, but if you get drawn out you better be saying, i hope he keeps calling cause i'll profit the next 10 times because of it.

Dave Scharf

Any advice on these loose callers? I usually have to bet to $17 or $20 to get these people out or overbet the pot so they don't chase.

Bad. Offer them the worst "bad draw" that they will accept.

It is frustrating to say the least when you have lets say top 2 pairs and someone chases the flush or straight where they clearly don't have pot odds.

This is what I now call a "good beat." They suck. That's why you can make money playing poker. Mostly, it's not because your play is brilliant. It's because other players are bad.

I also know that the more I play against these guys, it should play into my favour, but when they constantly play questionable hands and hit, its discouraging.

The only cure that know for this is to play a million hand. Then, the bad times tend to slide off because you have experienced it all before ... a lot.

bjvivs

Velvet Alley wrote:

i feel this way alot about the way poker is going. like you said it will play in your favor. This is my opinion but it may suit you as well.

1) play an ABC Game, tighten up and when you have the nuts, go all in. The game gets boring but you'll walk away with some cash
2) stop playing at those games. It takes awhile to find a group of players like yourself and respect the game enough to try and play as well as possible, but when you do you'll enjoy the game that much more when you can match wits with an apponent.

Why would any solid player leave a table full of loose fish to go sit at a tight table with zero action resulting in tiny pots all night?

roketinpoket

And you don't want to be check raising them. This will give them the odds to call your bets making their bad plays pay off.

stoneskn

dude. I don't think you can  understand where your poker profit is coming from! You have to realize that YOU WANT YOUR OPPONENTS TO CALL YOUR BETS AND CHASE THEIR STUPID DRAWS WHEN THEY AREN'T GETTING THE PROPER ODDS. Say you bet 3/4 of the pot on the turn. You suspect that they are on a flush/straight draw because of what you've seen them do before in these kinds of situations. When they call your $60 bet into a $80 pot, they are getting 140:60 or 2.33:1, they are getting wrong odds to draw the flush. They need 4:1 (or 3:1 if they think they can get another $60 from you on the river). If they call, they are theoretically - mathematically - losing money. When any poker player loses money, another wins it. And that's you (the winner).

He can only hit his flush 1 in 5 times (4:1). but his pot odds are 2.33:1 meaning he will lose $60 four times, and win $140 once.

140 - 60(4) = - 100.

Over 5 hands that's     -100/5 = -20

Your opponent loses $20 each time he makes a call with these kinds of numbers. Or you can think: When I bet 3/4 of the pot, and he calls with flush draw, he's losing 1/3 of the value of my bet (or 1/4 of the size of the pot before I bet) You gain any money he loses (if you aren't heads-up, you won't gain it all)

Obviously your gaining. Encourage his call, and welcome his flush, cause he's gonna do it next time, and LIKELY FAIL. You want to be there when it happens. His lack of knowledge and discipline has turned him into an ATM that you need to read, outplay and exploit.

please remember: your profit comes from you opponents' mistakes. If they don't make mistakes, you're the fish they're after, and you likely won't get much action from them when you've hit your hand. Let the fish call - that's what we WANT them to do. Poker is long term, so don't let short term fluctuations govern  your emotions. Hell - let nothing govern them. Play tight- play right, and the money'll come rollin' in!

ps. have you read Theory of Poker yet?

Big E

Thank you to everyone in this forum...and these posts....I am going through a low point in my game right now similar to this, where nothing seems to be going right...people are drawing out on me at a seemingly high rate and it really makes me question my play as well as alter my play....Should I really raise/re-raise my AA pre-flop anymore when J2 will call 2-3 bets and hit a deuce on the turn and a J on the river to make a boat??? Damn straight I should!!!!
It's hard to keep your focus and play a solid game through the bad runs but re-reading posts like this are a big help, thank you all!