sng tourney analysis

drunk7daysaweek

Hello,
First of all, I apologize for the long read here, but I'd appreciate any comments on my game and where I need to improve on. I'm new to poker and want to close the gaps, fix my mistakes and want to know where I need to improve. here is the summary:

***** Hand History for Game 2242721929 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:05:37 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (800)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (800)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (800)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (800)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (800)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (800)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (800)
Seat 8: chris75h (800)
Seat 9: mariosut (800)
Seat 10: flopking420 (800)
drunk7daysaweek posts small blind (10)
chris75h posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ 8s, 9s ]
mariosut folds.
flopking420 folds.
carshan05 folds.
AJ98C5 folds.
LEAR25 folds.
gfdgfdgfd folds.
m0nKeyMaGiC calls (15)
Dirsan00 folds.
drunk7daysaweek raises (20) to 30
chris75h folds.
m0nKeyMaGiC calls (15)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5d, Th, 7h ]
drunk7daysaweek checks.
m0nKeyMaGiC bets (15)
drunk7daysaweek calls (15)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Kh ]
drunk7daysaweek checks.
m0nKeyMaGiC checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ 6h ]
drunk7daysaweek bets (100)
m0nKeyMaGiC folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 205
Board: [ 5d Th 7h Kh 6h ]
carshan05 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
AJ98C5 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
LEAR25 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
gfdgfdgfd balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 755, lost 45 (folded)
Dirsan00 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
drunk7daysaweek balance 860, bet 145, collected 205, net +60
chris75h balance 785, lost 15 (folded)
mariosut balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
flopking420 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 2242726228 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:06:35 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (800)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (800)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (800)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (800)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (755)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (800)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (860)
Seat 8: chris75h (785)
Seat 9: mariosut (800)
Seat 10: flopking420 (800)
chris75h posts small blind (10)
mariosut posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ 7c, Ad ]
flopking420 calls (15)
carshan05 calls (15)
AJ98C5 folds.
LEAR25 calls (15)
gfdgfdgfd folds.
m0nKeyMaGiC folds.
Dirsan00 calls (15)
drunk7daysaweek folds.
chris75h calls (5)
mariosut checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9s, Jd, 8s ]
chris75h checks.
mariosut checks.
flopking420 bets (50)
carshan05 folds.
LEAR25 folds.
Dirsan00 raises (200) to 200
chris75h folds.
mariosut folds.
flopking420 calls (150)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3s ]
flopking420 bets (275)
Dirsan00 raises (585) to 585
Dirsan00 is all-In.
flopking420 folds.
Creating Main Pot with $1350 with Dirsan00
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1350
Board: [ 9s Jd 8s 3s ]
carshan05 balance 785, lost 15 (folded)
AJ98C5 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
LEAR25 balance 785, lost 15 (folded)
gfdgfdgfd balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 755, didn't bet (folded)
Dirsan00 balance 1350, bet 800, collected 1350, net +550
drunk7daysaweek balance 860, didn't bet (folded)
chris75h balance 770, lost 15 (folded)
mariosut balance 785, lost 15 (folded)
flopking420 balance 310, lost 490 (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 2242733742 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:08:03 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (785)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (800)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (785)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (800)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (755)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (1350)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (860)
Seat 8: chris75h (770)
Seat 9: mariosut (785)
Seat 10: flopking420 (310)
mariosut posts small blind (10)
flopking420 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ 7c, Kc ]
carshan05 folds.
AJ98C5 folds.
LEAR25 folds.
gfdgfdgfd raises (45) to 45
m0nKeyMaGiC folds.
Dirsan00 folds.
drunk7daysaweek folds.
chris75h folds.
mariosut folds.
flopking420 folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 70
carshan05 balance 785, didn't bet (folded)
AJ98C5 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
LEAR25 balance 785, didn't bet (folded)
gfdgfdgfd balance 825, bet 45, collected 70, net +25
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 755, didn't bet (folded)
Dirsan00 balance 1350, didn't bet (folded)
drunk7daysaweek balance 860, didn't bet (folded)
chris75h balance 770, didn't bet (folded)
mariosut balance 775, lost 10 (folded)
flopking420 balance 295, lost 15 (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 2242736172 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:08:32 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (785)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (800)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (785)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (825)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (755)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (1350)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (860)
Seat 8: chris75h (770)
Seat 9: mariosut (775)
Seat 10: flopking420 (295)
flopking420 posts small blind (10)
carshan05 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ 9s, As ]
AJ98C5 calls (15)
LEAR25 folds.
gfdgfdgfd folds.
m0nKeyMaGiC calls (15)
Dirsan00 folds.
drunk7daysaweek calls (15)
chris75h folds.
mariosut folds.
flopking420 folds.
carshan05 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6s, 7h, Qs ]
carshan05 bets (15)
AJ98C5 calls (15)
m0nKeyMaGiC raises (75) to 75
drunk7daysaweek raises (135) to 135
carshan05 calls (120)
AJ98C5 calls (120)
m0nKeyMaGiC calls (60)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 6d ]
carshan05 checks.
AJ98C5 checks.
m0nKeyMaGiC bets (75)
drunk7daysaweek calls (75)
carshan05 folds.
AJ98C5 calls (75)
** Dealing River ** : [ 2d ]
AJ98C5 checks.
m0nKeyMaGiC checks.
drunk7daysaweek checks.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 835
Board: [ 6s 7h Qs 6d 2d ]
carshan05 balance 635, lost 150 (folded)
AJ98C5 balance 1410, bet 225, collected 835, net +610 [ Qd Kd ] [ two pairs, queens and sixes -- Kd,Qd,Qs,6s,6d ]
LEAR25 balance 785, didn't bet (folded)
gfdgfdgfd balance 825, didn't bet (folded)
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 530, lost 225 [ 8s Ts ] [ a pair of sixes -- Qs,Ts,8s,6s,6d ]
Dirsan00 balance 1350, didn't bet (folded)
drunk7daysaweek balance 635, lost 225 [ 9s As ] [ a pair of sixes -- As,Qs,9s,6s,6d ]
chris75h balance 770, didn't bet (folded)
mariosut balance 775, didn't bet (folded)
flopking420 balance 285, lost 10 (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 2242747167 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:10:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (635)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (1410)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (785)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (825)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (530)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (1350)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (635)
Seat 8: chris75h (770)
Seat 9: mariosut (775)
Seat 10: flopking420 (285)
carshan05 posts small blind (10)
AJ98C5 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ 5s, Qs ]
LEAR25 raises (100) to 100
gfdgfdgfd folds.
m0nKeyMaGiC folds.
Dirsan00 folds.
drunk7daysaweek folds.
chris75h folds.
mariosut folds.
flopking420 folds.
carshan05 folds.
AJ98C5 folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 125
carshan05 balance 625, lost 10 (folded)
AJ98C5 balance 1395, lost 15 (folded)
LEAR25 balance 810, bet 100, collected 125, net +25
gfdgfdgfd balance 825, didn't bet (folded)
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 530, didn't bet (folded)
Dirsan00 balance 1350, didn't bet (folded)
drunk7daysaweek balance 635, didn't bet (folded)
chris75h balance 770, didn't bet (folded)
mariosut balance 775, didn't bet (folded)
flopking420 balance 285, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 2242749623 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:11:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (625)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (1395)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (810)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (825)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (530)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (1350)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (635)
Seat 8: chris75h (770)
Seat 9: mariosut (775)
Seat 10: flopking420 (285)
AJ98C5 posts small blind (10)
LEAR25 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ 9c, Ad ]
gfdgfdgfd folds.
m0nKeyMaGiC folds.
Dirsan00 folds.
drunk7daysaweek folds.
chris75h folds.
mariosut folds.
flopking420 folds.
carshan05 folds.
AJ98C5 calls (5)
LEAR25 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5d, 7c, Js ]
AJ98C5 checks.
LEAR25 bets (30)
AJ98C5 folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 60
Board: [ 5d 7c Js ]
carshan05 balance 625, didn't bet (folded)
AJ98C5 balance 1380, lost 15 (folded)
LEAR25 balance 825, bet 45, collected 60, net +15
gfdgfdgfd balance 825, didn't bet (folded)
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 530, didn't bet (folded)
Dirsan00 balance 1350, didn't bet (folded)
drunk7daysaweek balance 635, didn't bet (folded)
chris75h balance 770, didn't bet (folded)
mariosut balance 775, didn't bet (folded)
flopking420 balance 285, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 2242753190 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:11:46 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (625)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (1380)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (825)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (825)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (530)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (1350)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (635)
Seat 8: chris75h (770)
Seat 9: mariosut (775)
Seat 10: flopking420 (285)
LEAR25 posts small blind (10)
gfdgfdgfd posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ Js, 6h ]
m0nKeyMaGiC folds.
Dirsan00 raises (80) to 80
drunk7daysaweek folds.
chris75h folds.
mariosut folds.
flopking420 folds.
carshan05 folds.
AJ98C5 folds.
LEAR25 folds.
gfdgfdgfd folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 105
carshan05 balance 625, didn't bet (folded)
AJ98C5 balance 1380, didn't bet (folded)
LEAR25 balance 815, lost 10 (folded)
gfdgfdgfd balance 810, lost 15 (folded)
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 530, didn't bet (folded)
Dirsan00 balance 1375, bet 80, collected 105, net +25
drunk7daysaweek balance 635, didn't bet (folded)
chris75h balance 770, didn't bet (folded)
mariosut balance 775, didn't bet (folded)
flopking420 balance 285, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 2242755411 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:12:12 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (625)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (1380)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (815)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (810)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (530)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (1375)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (635)
Seat 8: chris75h (770)
Seat 9: mariosut (775)
Seat 10: flopking420 (285)
gfdgfdgfd posts small blind (10)
m0nKeyMaGiC posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ 5s, 5d ]
Dirsan00 folds.
drunk7daysaweek calls (15)
chris75h calls (15)
mariosut calls (15)
flopking420 folds.
carshan05 folds.
AJ98C5 calls (15)
LEAR25 calls (15)
gfdgfdgfd calls (5)
m0nKeyMaGiC checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 7c, 2d, 8d ]
gfdgfdgfd checks.
m0nKeyMaGiC bets (80)
drunk7daysaweek raises (435) to 435
chris75h folds.
mariosut folds.
AJ98C5 folds.
LEAR25 folds.
gfdgfdgfd folds.
m0nKeyMaGiC raises (435) to 515
m0nKeyMaGiC is all-In.
drunk7daysaweek calls (80)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 7d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 8c ]
Creating Main Pot with $1135 with m0nKeyMaGiC
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1135 |
Board: [ 7c 2d 8d 7d 8c ]
carshan05 balance 625, didn't bet (folded)
AJ98C5 balance 1365, lost 15 (folded)
LEAR25 balance 800, lost 15 (folded)
gfdgfdgfd balance 795, lost 15 (folded)
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 1135, bet 530, collected 1135, net +605 [ 2c 8s ] [ a full house, Eights full of sevens -- 8s,8d,8c,7c,7d ]
Dirsan00 balance 1375, didn't bet (folded)
drunk7daysaweek balance 105, lost 530 [ 5s 5d ] [ two pairs, eights and sevens -- 8d,8c,7c,7d,5s ]
chris75h balance 755, lost 15 (folded)
mariosut balance 760, lost 15 (folded)
flopking420 balance 285, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 2242761374 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:13:21 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (625)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (1365)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (800)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (795)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (1135)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (1375)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (105)
Seat 8: chris75h (755)
Seat 9: mariosut (760)
Seat 10: flopking420 (285)
m0nKeyMaGiC posts small blind (10)
Dirsan00 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ Ts, 6d ]
drunk7daysaweek folds.
chris75h folds.
mariosut folds.
flopking420 folds.
carshan05 folds.
AJ98C5 folds.
LEAR25 folds.
gfdgfdgfd folds.
m0nKeyMaGiC calls (5)
Dirsan00 raises (65) to 80
m0nKeyMaGiC calls (65)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5c, 5h, 8c ]
m0nKeyMaGiC checks.
Dirsan00 bets (125)
m0nKeyMaGiC calls (125)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2s ]
m0nKeyMaGiC checks.
Dirsan00 checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ 9c ]
m0nKeyMaGiC bets (225)
Dirsan00 folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 635
Board: [ 5c 5h 8c 2s 9c ]
carshan05 balance 625, didn't bet (folded)
AJ98C5 balance 1365, didn't bet (folded)
LEAR25 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
gfdgfdgfd balance 795, didn't bet (folded)
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 1340, bet 430, collected 635, net +205
Dirsan00 balance 1170, lost 205 (folded)
drunk7daysaweek balance 105, didn't bet (folded)
chris75h balance 755, didn't bet (folded)
mariosut balance 760, didn't bet (folded)
flopking420 balance 285, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 2242768241 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:14:41 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (625)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (1365)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (800)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (795)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (1340)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (1170)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (105)
Seat 8: chris75h (755)
Seat 9: mariosut (760)
Seat 10: flopking420 (285)
Dirsan00 posts small blind (10)
drunk7daysaweek posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ Js, Kh ]
chris75h folds.
mariosut folds.
flopking420 calls (15)
carshan05 calls (15)
AJ98C5 folds.
LEAR25 folds.
gfdgfdgfd folds.
m0nKeyMaGiC folds.
Dirsan00 calls (5)
drunk7daysaweek checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9h, 2c, 3s ]
Dirsan00 bets (60)
drunk7daysaweek folds.
flopking420 calls (60)
carshan05 raises (120) to 120
Dirsan00 calls (60)
flopking420 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2s ]
Dirsan00 checks.
carshan05 checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ Ts ]
Dirsan00 checks.
carshan05 bets (50)
Dirsan00 calls (50)
** Summary **
Main Pot: 460
Board: [ 9h 2c 3s 2s Ts ]
carshan05 balance 900, bet 185, collected 460, net +275 [ 9d 6d ] [ two pairs, nines and twos -- Ts,9d,9h,2c,2s ]
AJ98C5 balance 1365, didn't bet (folded)
LEAR25 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
gfdgfdgfd balance 795, didn't bet (folded)
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 1340, didn't bet (folded)
Dirsan00 balance 985, lost 185 [ 3d 8d ] [ two pairs, threes and twos -- Ts,3d,3s,2c,2s ]
drunk7daysaweek balance 90, lost 15 (folded)
chris75h balance 755, didn't bet (folded)
mariosut balance 760, didn't bet (folded)
flopking420 balance 210, lost 75 (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 2242775493 *****
30/60 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13295022) - Tue Jun 21 20:16:05 EDT 2005
Table Table 12444 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: carshan05 (900)
Seat 2: AJ98C5 (1365)
Seat 3: LEAR25 (800)
Seat 4: gfdgfdgfd (795)
Seat 5: m0nKeyMaGiC (1340)
Seat 6: Dirsan00 (985)
Seat 7: drunk7daysaweek (90)
Seat 8: chris75h (755)
Seat 9: mariosut (760)
Seat 10: flopking420 (210)
drunk7daysaweek posts small blind (15)
chris75h posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drunk7daysaweek [ Jc, 2c ]
mariosut folds.
flopking420 raises (210) to 210
flopking420 is all-In.
carshan05 folds.
AJ98C5 folds.
LEAR25 folds.
gfdgfdgfd folds.
m0nKeyMaGiC folds.
Dirsan00 calls (210)
drunk7daysaweek calls (75)
drunk7daysaweek is all-In.
chris75h folds.
Creating Main Pot with $300 with drunk7daysaweek
Creating Side Pot 1 with $240 with flopking420
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4c, 2h, 6d ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 6c ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 4h ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: 300 | Side Pot 1: 240 |
Board: [ 4c 2h 6d 6c 4h ]
carshan05 balance 900, didn't bet (folded)
AJ98C5 balance 1365, didn't bet (folded)
LEAR25 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
gfdgfdgfd balance 795, didn't bet (folded)
m0nKeyMaGiC balance 1340, didn't bet (folded)
Dirsan00 balance 1315, bet 210, collected 540, net +330 [ Tc Ad ] [ two pairs, sixes and fours with ace kicker -- Ad,6d,6c,4c,4h ]
drunk7daysaweek balance 0, lost 90 [ Jc 2c ] [ two pairs, sixes and fours -- Jc,6d,6c,4c,4h ]
chris75h balance 725, lost 30 (folded)
mariosut balance 760, didn't bet (folded)
flopking420 balance 0, lost 210 [ Ts Qs ] [ two pairs, sixes and fours with queen kicker -- Qs,6d,6c,4c,4h ]

***** Hand History for Game 2242778695 *****
drunk7daysaweek finished in tenth place.
flopking420 finished in ninth place.

BBC Z

Three hands I hate:

1) Re-raising the flop on a flush draw. This isn't limit poker, when you whiff the turn, it's going to be expensive to get to the river. Whiff again and you are crippled.

2) Pushing 55 on a flop with two overcards after limping preflop.. Why? You played it preflop to make a set and missed. FOLD.

3) Why did you min raise your suited connector in the 1st hand? Very bizarre play.

twosnaces

I agree w/ BBC.

The push with 55 when the BB bet is a little strange since it was a rag flop and there was no pre-flop raise the BB could have almost anything.

Re-raising a flush draw is a little off. It may have been a good time to bet if it was checked to you but definitely not a good time to raise.

I'm never a fan of the min. raise. The BB is almost guaranteed to call you as well as the limper. So why bother?

I also don't think that you had to play that last hand. You would have had another 8 hands to choose to push all-in with and you could have found a better chance to double/triple up.

drunk7daysaweek

BBC Z wrote:

Three hands I hate:

1) Re-raising the flop on a flush draw. This isn't limit poker, when you whiff the turn, it's going to be expensive to get to the river. Whiff again and you are crippled.

2) Pushing 55 on a flop with two overcards after limping preflop.. Why? You played it preflop to make a set and missed. FOLD.

3) Why did you min raise your suited connector in the 1st hand? Very bizarre play.

1) so a flush draw @ the flop should be have been called?

2) I know that was sloppy, but I was trying to steal the blinds with that play.

3) Bascially, I was trying to build the pot in case I hit something. What would you have done here?

thx for the advice/comments guys, greatly appreciated

ScoobyD

I'd agree with the hands previously mentioned, as well as the bustout hand. You can find a better spot than calling in a raised pot with 2 players already in.

1) I call with the flush draw. If it gets expensive on the turn, I'm probably ducking out. I'm trying to make my hand as cheaply as possible, and I'm not thinking about semi-bluffing people in the early stages of a SNG (too many people will call, or even worse reraise you) with hands like top pair no kicker.

2) You missed. 2 overs, unraised pot. Unless you KNOW that person bluffs almost constantly, I don't feel like risking that many chips there. Even if he's on a semi bluff with something like T9 he's got a ton of outs to beat you...

3) You have an implied odds hand. You're getting those odds IF you can get in cheaply to see a flop. So limp. A min raise isn't big enough to steal the blinds. And risking more with such a weak hand in the early stages of a SNG with what is likely filled by loose passive types is highly questionable. I don't want to risk much with this hand out of position, since many people in the BB will call with weak hands.

BBC Z

drunk7daysaweek wrote:

BBC Z wrote:

Three hands I hate:

1) Re-raising the flop on a flush draw. This isn't limit poker, when you whiff the turn, it's going to be expensive to get to the river. Whiff again and you are crippled.

2) Pushing 55 on a flop with two overcards after limping preflop.. Why? You played it preflop to make a set and missed. FOLD.

3) Why did you min raise your suited connector in the 1st hand? Very bizarre play.

1) so a flush draw @ the flop should be have been called?

2) I know that was sloppy, but I was trying to steal the blinds with that play.

3) Bascially, I was trying to build the pot in case I hit something. What would you have done here?

thx for the advice/comments guys, greatly appreciated

1) Well you are on a draw with like 5 opponents who can pay you off, so I wouldnt' want to lose any players. But in general, you don't want to re-open action when you can't stand a raise.. In this case, you've got ace-high against an opponent pair with opponents left to act after you. Draw cheap cards..

2) Stealing the blinds usually involves two things: A raise preflop and NOT moving all-in on the flop against 7 players. Wow, I didn't even notice that before. There were 7 players on the flop. Exactly who are you stealing from? Top pair MIGHT be able to fold, but with all those limpers and 3 low cards on the flop, sets are a possibility and they sure aint folding.

3) It's NL, not PL. You don't need to build pots, you can move all-in anytime. And your min raise isn't exactly building anything anyway..

ScoobyD

Wow, I didn't even notice that before. There were 7 players on the flop.

Holy crap. I missed that too...

ScottyZ

1)...But in general, you don't want to re-open action when you can't stand a raise...

This also goes to support the argument for not raising a small amount as in #3 (with the 89s). Re-opening the action to one or more opponents who have already acted in a round is costly to you.

More importantly, the 89s is what's usually called an implied odds hand. That is, you'd like to see the flop cheaply "in case [you] hit something". You generally don't want to voluntarily put more chips into a pot pre-flop, whether it's limit, PL or NL, with pure implied odds hands such as 22 and 89s.

Don't get extra money in early in the hopes of hitting a big hand later. It's the other way around.

With the 89s on the very first hand of the tournament, one limper in, and out of position on the SB with $5 more to call into a $40 pot, you have an easy call with the suited connector.

Incidentally, the 55 hand (Hand #1) is a great example of the pre-flop action working out perfectly for an implied odds hand. You got to see the youself as cheaply as possible, and many players have joined you, which is exactly the pre-flop result you want with that kind of hand.

ScottyZ

drunk7daysaweek

After reading the responses I feel embarassed how careless my mistakes were. I understand about seeing the flop as cheaply as possible with implied hands, but I'm lost as to when a good time to raise/how much to raise ? For example, if I got AQ or AJ suited but am not in position, do I limp in or raise? What if I'm BB with AQs or AJs?

BBC Z

After reading the responses I feel embarassed how careless my mistakes were.

Don't. We're all here to learn.

For example, if I got AQ or AJ suited but am not in position, do I limp in or raise?

Put in the standard 3xBB raise (or whatever is standard for your table) and proceed with caution. No Limit has far less 'automatic' plays than Limit does, so it's going to come down to your reads of the players at the table to figure out what to do on the various flops.. (In general, if I preflop raise and the boards not scary, I'll bet the flop automatically)..

ScottyZ

For example, if I got AQ or AJ suited but am not in position, do I limp in or raise? What if I'm BB with AQs or AJs?

These hands (AQs and AJs), along with hands like 99-TT are versitile, and therefore can be a little tricky to play.

These hands are kind of a mixture of implied odds hands and legitimately strong (though, not powerhouses) pre-flop hands. Hands like AJs and 99 have a decent chance of being the best hand right now, so that you probably want to raise pre-flop in cases when you think you could narrow the field. For example, with no limpers coming in ahead of me, I'd often raise with these sorts of hands.

However, with a few (say 2 or 3) limpers ahead of you, you have a couple of sensible options.

You could put in a decent sized raise if you think the limpers behind you are showing weakness by limping in.

You could also just limp along and hope to catch a big flop, just as you might with a typical implied odds hand. If you do end up choosing the passive/implied odds approach pre-flop, the tricky part is not getting carried away if you merely catch a small part of the flop. Playing an AJs in "implied odds form", you've got to be careful with (and be ready to get away from) flops like J93 two-suited (not your suit). While this flop looks pretty good for you if you had decided to show some pre-flop strength, with passive pre-flop play I'd be somewhat more cautious.

The important difference is that if you have allowed many opponents to get in their cheaply along with you pre-flop with an implied odds hand, whether it was a "natural" implied odds hand or one you chose to play it that way, you can't stand too much heat if you got a flop which looks merely good for you. Why? Simply because a lot of players are along for the ride.

When many opponents are in the chances of both of the following go way up:

1. One of your opponents having a legitimate hand.
2. An opponent, if he/she is betting and/or raising into you, having a real hand as opposed to bluffing.

Facing a big field, I'm both less inclined to bluff, and less inclined to feel that any particular opponent is making a bluff.

The times that I do take a farily strong hand like AQs and decide to play it in its implied odds form, I like to keep in mind the phrase: If you're going to play it like a drawing hand, then play it like a drawing hand.

We're all here to learn.

What?!? I'm here to find out which online sites are rigged.

ScottyZ

BBC Z

What?!? I'm here to find out which online sites are rigged.

I thought this was a place to talk about:

1) The legalities of home poker. YOU RAKE IT's ILLEGAL, theres no loopholes, game over.
2) The same 5 poker books a thousand times. Yes SSH is good. Go buy it.
3) The open K-W man flirting/'ego' stroking. Just get a motel room and get it over with guys.
4) Some home game at jim bobs house two weeks ago
5) Occasionally actually talk some poker and have it break out into an all out flame war 20 replies deep...

Or atleast, thats why *I* keep comin back...

moose

One thing I will note is that it looks to me like you like suited cards far too much. A flush beats a straight because it is harder to hit than a straight, yet many people get caught in the trap of thinking the flush is likely to happen. This is because you will get suited cards 23.5% of the time. However taking these cards to the river will get you a flush only 6.5% of the time. There is a big mismatch between the number of times preflop that you think you might get a flush draw and the number of times you will actually hit.

Don't forget also that any higher flush will beat your flush. One situation to be really cautious is when you are playing two suited cards, and you flop the flush. Anyone with the A, K and maybe the Q of that suit will hang in to the river hoping that a fourth card to the flush falls - killing your low flush.

drunk7daysaweek

moose04 wrote:

One thing I will note is that it looks to me like you like suited cards far too much.  A flush beats a straight because it is harder to hit than a straight, yet many people get caught in the trap of thinking the flush is likely to happen.  This is because you will get suited cards 23.5% of the time.  However taking these cards to the river will get you a flush only 6.5% of the time.  There is a big mismatch between the number of times preflop that you think you might get a flush draw and the number of times you will actually hit. 

Yes, you are right! I do play suited way too much in hopes for a flush, and I never think about the odds of actually hitting it.

BBC Z

moose04 wrote:

One thing I will note is that it looks to me like you like suited cards far too much. A flush beats a straight because it is harder to hit than a straight, yet many people get caught in the trap of thinking the flush is likely to happen. This is because you will get suited cards 23.5% of the time. However taking these cards to the river will get you a flush only 6.5% of the time. There is a big mismatch between the number of times preflop that you think you might get a flush draw and the number of times you will actually hit.

Your math is wrong. You'll flop a flush draw 10% of the time and make it 1 out of 3 on the flop by the river or 1 to 5 on a single card.. So around 2-3% of the time you'll make a flush with any two suited cards.

Anyway, Hero isn't playing any two suited.. He's playing big suited hands.

Don't forget also that any higher flush will beat your flush.

Argh, this happens so rarely (Two card flush over Two card Flush) that you can ignore it.

Anyone with the A, K and maybe the Q of that suit will hang in to the river hoping that a fourth card to the flush falls - killing your low flush.

Which is why you should play your made hands agressively when they are vunerable to redraws

But I dont like the overall tone of your post concerning suited connectors in NL.. These are hands you want to get to the flop cheap because you win entire stacks when you hit them. The implied odds make them must plays. You current views on them seem very weak-tight..

QueenNine

BBC does that same rule of thumb apply to a $10+1 tourny, first hand I am dealt AJ :, Flop gives me KQ : and a rag, I push all in with 1 caller. Turn and river are rags and the other guys flips over his QQ pockets.

Did I bet it right? Or was that too agressive?

BBC Z

MDSGuy wrote:

BBC does that same rule of thumb apply to a $10+1 tourny, first hand I am dealt AJ :, Flop gives me KQ : and a rag, I push all in with 1 caller. Turn and river are rags and the other guys flips over his QQ pockets.

Did I bet it right? Or was that too agressive?

Over agressive. Generally, don't put all your chips into the pot on a draw, unless it's some very monster draw like two overs + OESFD..

You've got ace high vs a likely opponent pair (on that flop) so putting all your chips into the pot when you are behind is wrong.

Just remember that with that nut flush draw, you are well on your way to getting this guys chips.. but you arent there yet.. so you've got to play it slower and be ready to get rid of it to bet sizes that overcommit you to the hand..

What I dont like about your play is that the tourney just started, so you've got like another 100-120 hands to play. No need to go crazy this early.

moose

moose04 wrote:

One thing I will note is that it looks to me like you like suited cards far too much. A flush beats a straight because it is harder to hit than a straight, yet many people get caught in the trap of thinking the flush is likely to happen. This is because you will get suited cards 23.5% of the time. However taking these cards to the river will get you a flush only 6.5% of the time. There is a big mismatch between the number of times preflop that you think you might get a flush draw and the number of times you will actually hit.

Your math is wrong. You'll flop a flush draw 10% of the time and make it 1 out of 3 on the flop by the river or 1 to 5 on a single card.. So around 2-3% of the time you'll make a flush with any two suited cards.

Anyway, Hero isn't playing any two suited.. He's playing big suited hands.

J2 is hardly a big suited.  Unless you have an A or K in your hand, to win a hand you are going to either have to bluff them off the pot, catch your flush, two pair or trips.  If you enter pots looking for that to happen you might as well play any 72suited because that is just as likely to dominate.  Otherwise you will most likely be throwing your chips away to a simple overpair.  J2s is a trash hand that should have been thrown away when the pot was raised before him.  

YOUR math is wrong.  Look up holdem odds on any website.  It IS 6.5%.

Don't forget also that any higher flush will beat your flush.

Argh, this happens so rarely (Two card flush over Two card Flush) that you can ignore it.

No you should discount your hand when outs remain for other players that may give them a better hand than you.  Beginners should take the time to look up one of the many articles written on recognizing a nut hand and realize that if you don't have the nuts they should be wary of what other people may be playing with.  If you can't get someone to fold by pushing them off the pot, they could be on a better hand than you, on the nuts or trying to draw the nuts.

Anyone with the A, K and maybe the Q of that suit will hang in to the river hoping that a fourth card to the flush falls - killing your low flush.

Which is why you should play your made hands agressively when they are vunerable to redraws

But I dont like the overall tone of your post concerning suited connectors in NL.. These are hands you want to get to the flop cheap because you win entire stacks when you hit them. The implied odds make them must plays. You current views on them seem very weak-tight..

Another way to look at implied odds is to think "If I get raised x number of chips after I enter the pot will I call or fold".  If the answer is a high number you probably should be raising when you enter.  If the answer is a low number you should look at how many people have to act after you and decide if you really should be folding.  Good players will quickly recognize the frequent limpers and punish them by raising from late position.

I believe our hero was raising his suited connectors preflop.  I agree with you, see the flop cheap when you have drawing hands, make your hand and make your oppenents pay to see your cards.  A significant error in beginners is to think they have the nuts when they don't, push all in and lose to a full house because they didn't see that the board was paired.  

Beginners also have to learn about pot odds and learn when it is worth it to stay in a hand and try and make it on the turn or river and when to give up and fold.  If they know about pot odds then, as you say, they will recognize how much to raise a pot and take away the pot odds from someone else who may be trying to make a draw.  Especially early in the tournament when there are still lots of crazies who will call with anything there was no need for our hero to have committed such a significant portion of his chips without having made his hands.

BBC Z

J2 is hardly a big suited.

That was his bustout hand. By then he has pretty much given up the tourney. There were plenty of hands before this where Hero folded suited trash.

YOUR math is wrong. Look up holdem odds on any website. It IS 6.5%.

Right, I was only including the practical flush draws. Not the runner/runner backdoor ones that you most likely would have folded before you got there.. Or including 4 board card flushes when you hold the 2..

No you should discount your hand when outs remain for other players that may give them a better hand than you. Beginners should take the time to look up one of the many articles written on recognizing a nut hand and realize that if you don't have the nuts they should be wary of what other people may be playing with. If you can't get someone to fold by pushing them off the pot, they could be on a better hand than you, on the nuts or trying to draw the nuts.

You can't play scared poker. And that is what you are advocating. Sure, someone could have quads when the board pairs.. but it's far more likely that your opponent has top pair or worse.. And draws to the nuts are not always out there to be scared of anyway..

I believe our hero was raising his suited connectors preflop.

Why not just look? Hero did it once for a main raise preflop. You are making FAR too broad accusations of Heros leaks.. the evidence shows that it's not his main problem.

Hero's is just being too quick to pull the trigger and move all-in..

ScoobyD

J2 is hardly a big suited.

I think this is probably a bit of an overgeneralization. Hero folded hands like Kx, Qxs numerous times I believe prior to this. I saw this as more of a desperate short-stacked allin.

Good players will quickly recognize the frequent limpers and punish them by raising from late position.

True, but I don't think anyone here is advocating playing those implied odds hands in early position either. In certain situations (ie. LP, from the blinds when it's cheap to do so), yes.

moose

ScoobyD wrote:

J2 is hardly a big suited.

I think this is probably a bit of an overgeneralization.  Hero folded hands like Kx, Qxs numerous times I believe prior to this.  I saw this as more of a desperate short-stacked allin.

 

I used the J2 because BBC_Z said our hero was playing big suited cards. It was the only one in the list. Hero folded a K7s.

We are all good on stats now. If you read my post I believe it does say that the odds of making a flush from flop to river with 2 suited in the hole is 6.5%, which would include all back doors, making it on the flop etc. I used this stat since I was also cautioning that 3 suited on the flop will give other players the opportunity to make a back door.

I think we all aspire to be TAA's. However beginner's have a hard time reading players, knowing when is the right time to be agressive and when they shouldn't. There is a difference between stating the best play for the best players and providing advice for beginners. Beginners in general play too many hands. Also they are usuallly too passive. Our hero seems to be past that stage but he needs to find a happy medium. Telling our hero he was too agressive and providing advice on how to tighten his play is the same thing. Which is more useful?

BBC Z

However beginner's have a hard time reading players, knowing when is the right time to be agressive and when they shouldn't. There is a difference between stating the best play for the best players and providing advice for beginners.

Are you suggesting watering down advice because the person may be a 'beginner'? I hope not, or else they'll never learn how to play.

ScoobyD

Beginners in general play too many hands. Also they are usuallly too passive.

Agreed. However as BBC stated I don't think a blanket generalized statement saying "Play tight, play aggressive, pay attention to your posiition, don't go on tilt, etc. etc. etc" serves anyone. Anyone can get this stuff from a book. It's the different situational aspects of the game and the frank (often opposing viewpoints) of this forum that has me hooked on it. I think it's implied that when someone suggest the best play it means "the best play in this situation" (from their perspective).

moose

BBC Z wrote:

However beginner's have a hard time reading players, knowing when is the right time to be agressive and when they shouldn't.  There is a difference between stating the best play for the best players and providing advice for beginners.

Are you suggesting watering down advice because the person may be a 'beginner'? I hope not, or else they'll never learn how to play.

You are an F1 driver. You are teaching your son to drive. Do you teach him to drive defensively first or do you take him out on the track and tell him to win, win, win? I think all advice has to be taken and given in the context of the person asking the question. There are many plays that simply can not and will not work unless that player has the right table image, can read his opponents, predict what they will do and put the opponents cards into the correct box. Poker is fun and challenging because of the many different levels and nuances of play. It is by far my favourite game.

drunk7daysaweek

This may be a silly question, but how do you spot the limpers, as opposed to those calling to set you up?

And say you have J2 suited on the BB, and the flop shows J 5 9, two of which are the same suite as the pocket cards... you're sitting with a pair and a flush draw, so do you bet? What if someone bets into you, do you raise/fall/fold? It's these type of situations that normally get me in trouble

moose

I will make a ring on a piece of paper. I will track how times each player calls or raises preflop (and by how much). Then I will note what they were holding if I get to see their cards. If ten hands have been played and someone has been in 7 hands and never raised, well, there you go.

If you have logged a frequent, agressive raiser and now he is checking on you in a hand, be wary of a trap. He may have nothing and just be looking for a free card but be careful about overcommitting to a pot. If someone who was checking suddenly switches to betting, he probably made a hand.

Once I establish what type of player he is then I will add it to the online player notes so if I see that guy again I will start right off knowing how he plays.

Remember what a player did preflop. If there was no preflop raise likely the hands aren't too big and most people will be playing drawing hands.

Here is something to try next time you are in a SB vs BB or button vs BB situation. If the late position players are limping into you in the BB every once in a while throw out a min. raise - no matter what you have. Then commit to betting the flop - no matter what falls. This can take down pots and help protect your blinds from being stolen. If a late position player keeps raising you in the BB then they are likely trying to steal. Again, once in a while try reraising him and betting the flop. If you get reraised back you can throw it away but the key is to mix it up. Try a few things, make a log of when they work and when they didn't. If you get caught a few times don't worry about it. If you try something with nothing and get caught (ie fold pre-flop or on the flop due to reraises), imagine the power of repeating exactly the same play the next time you sit with AA or other power cards in the hole.

drunk7daysaweek

Thanks for the tips, I'll try that