My 1K WSOP satellite adventure.

Unknown

This is a series of very thinly-disguised bad beat stories.  There, you're warned.  Last night I won my way into a 1K WSOP satellite tournament on Paradise, by coming in first of 47 in a $20 rebuy tournament.  I played the 1K sat. tonight.  Would anyone have played these hands differently?  These three hands were pretty much my whole tournament.

Game #790659523 - Tournament WSOP $1000 - 15/30 No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/04/13-20:20:20.5 (CST)
Table "WSOP $1000 2" (MTT) -- Seat 2 is the button
Seat  2: ca is ca  (985 in chips)
Seat  3: all_aces  (1,680 in chips)
Seat  4: Yumi#1  (740 in chips)
Seat  5: very fastcar  (2,050 in chips)
Seat  6: Scotteyes  (1,295 in chips)
Seat  7: gizmopoker  (2,165 in chips)
Seat  8: Mr.Nancy  (1,585 in chips)
all_aces: Post Small Blind (15)
Yumi#1  : Post Big Blind (30)
Dealt to all_aces [ Kd ]
Dealt to all_aces [ Kh ]
very fastcar: Fold
Scotteyes: Fold
gizmopoker: Raise (60)
Mr.Nancy: Call (60)
ca is ca: Fold
all_aces: Raise (170)
Yumi#1  : Call (155)
gizmopoker: Fold
Mr.Nancy: Call (125)
*** FLOP *** : [ 3s 2h Js ]
all_aces: Bet (600)
Yumi#1  : Fold
Mr.Nancy: Raise (1,200)
all_aces: Raise All-in (895)
Mr.Nancy: Call All-in (200)
*** TURN *** : [ 3s 2h Js ] [ 6h ]
*** RIVER *** : [ 3s 2h Js 6h ] [ 3h ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 3,415 | Board: [ 3s  2h  Js  6h  3h ]
ca is ca didn't bet (folded)
all_aces bet 1,680, collected 95, net -1,585 (showed hand) [ Kd  Kh ]  (two pair, kings and threes)
Yumi#1 lost 185 (folded)
very fastcar didn't bet (folded)
Scotteyes didn't bet (folded)
gizmopoker lost 60 (folded)
Mr.Nancy bet 1,585, collected 3,415, net +1,830 (showed hand) [ Jc  Jd ]  (a full house, jacks full of threes)

Game #790665474 - Tournament WSOP $1000 - 15/30 No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/04/13-20:24:15.8 (CST)
Table "WSOP $1000 2" (MTT) -- Seat 5 is the button
Seat  1: juiceman1  (1,765 in chips)
Seat  2: ca is ca  (975 in chips)
Seat  3: all_aces  (95 in chips)
Seat  4: Yumi#1  (450 in chips)
Seat  5: very fastcar  (1,975 in chips)
Seat  6: Scotteyes  (1,265 in chips)
Seat  7: gizmopoker  (2,580 in chips)
Seat  8: Mr.Nancy  (3,260 in chips)
Seat  9: thedrain  (2,095 in chips)
Seat 10: reelem_in  (1,425 in chips)
Scotteyes: Post Small Blind (15)
gizmopoker: Post Big Blind (30)
Dealing...
Dealt to all_aces [ 5c ]
Dealt to all_aces [ 5h ]
bysexual said, "nh"
Mr.Nancy: Fold
thedrain: Fold
reelem_in: Fold
juiceman1: Fold
ca is ca: Call (30)
all_aces: Raise (95)
Yumi#1  : Fold
very fastcar: Fold
Scotteyes: Fold
gizmopoker: Call (65)
ca is ca: Call (65)
*** FLOP *** : [ 4c Qh As ]
gizmopoker: Bet (30)
ca is ca: Fold
*** TURN *** : [ 4c Qh As ] [ 5d ]
*** RIVER *** : [ 4c Qh As 5d ] [ 7c ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 300 | Board: [ 4c  Qh  As  5d  7c ]
juiceman1 didn't bet (folded)
ca is ca lost 95 (folded)
all_aces bet 95, collected 300, net +205 (showed hand) [ 5c  5h ]  (three of a kind, fives)
Yumi#1 didn't bet (folded)
very fastcar didn't bet (folded)
Scotteyes lost 15 (folded)
gizmopoker bet 125, collected 30, net -95 (showed hand) [ Jd  Ks ]  (high card ace)
Mr.Nancy didn't bet (folded)
thedrain didn't bet (folded)
reelem_in didn't bet (folded)

Game #790674573 - Tournament WSOP $1000 - 25/50 No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/04/13-20:30:11.4 (CST)
Table "WSOP $1000 2" (MTT) -- Seat 9 is the button
Seat  1: juiceman1  (1,705 in chips)
Seat  3: all_aces  (300 in chips)
Seat  5: very fastcar  (3,540 in chips)
Seat  6: Scotteyes  (1,460 in chips)
Seat  7: gizmopoker  (2,295 in chips)
Seat  8: Mr.Nancy  (3,155 in chips)
Seat  9: thedrain  (2,035 in chips)
Seat 10: reelem_in  (1,395 in chips)
reelem_in: Post Small Blind (25)
juiceman1: Post Big Blind (50)
Dealing...
Dealt to all_aces [ Kd ]
Dealt to all_aces [ Kc ]
all_aces: Call (50)
very fastcar: Fold
Scotteyes: Call (50)
gizmopoker: Fold
Luckis4me said, "you"
Mr.Nancy: Call (50)
thedrain: Fold
reelem_in: Fold
juiceman1: Check
*** FLOP *** : [ 7h Th 5h ]
juiceman1: Check
all_aces: Bet (250)
Scotteyes: Call (250)
Luckis4me said, "gl ace"
Mr.Nancy: Fold
juiceman1: Fold
*** TURN *** : [ 7h Th 5h ] [ 6s ]
all_aces said, "lol"
*** RIVER *** : [ 7h Th 5h 6s ] [ 6c ]
all_aces said, "not my night i guess"
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 725 | Board: [ 7h  Th  5h  6s  6c ]
juiceman1 lost 50 (folded)
all_aces lost 300 (showed hand) [ Kd  Kc ]  (two pair, kings and sixes)
very fastcar didn't bet (folded)
Scotteyes bet 300, collected 725, net +425 (showed hand) [ Ad  Ac ]  (two pair, aces and sixes)
gizmopoker didn't bet (folded)
Mr.Nancy lost 50 (folded)
thedrain didn't bet (folded)
reelem_in lost 25 (folded)

Feel like I can't catch a break sometimes... oh well, maybe all my good karma will show up in early June...

Chugs

Well three hands three pocket pairs and the only one that wins is 55.

I think you played them well, just bad luck

magithighs

Well, that pretty much sucks.  I think not having bad luck is more important than getting lucky -- if that makes sense.  And Paradise is rigged -- lol!

Personally, on your first hand, I like to make a tad bigger raise when I'm in the blinds and out of position with a big hand.  I like to make a 25% bigger than pot sized raise here to really define my hand and make it easier to fold.  A pot sized raise is 225 here and I'd make it 275 to go, instead of the 170 raise.  I don't think it changes anything until you get to the flop.  But, post-flop, with that big of a raise, I think any normal thinking person must put you on AK, JJ-AA and when they raise you a huge amount totally not caring if you have aces, you've got to think they likely have a set.  They can't have top pair, flush draw -- they could have aces, or a set.   Given it's not a rebuy, and they are not going to risk it all, I'd have to think think they've got me beat.  Too many times, I've given myself the information (via the large pre-flop raise) and then totally discounted the fact that I could be beat and push the damn stack in.  And, lo and behold they have a bigger set than me or they have a set to take down my aces.  Just some thoughts.

Cheers
magi

Unknown

Thanks for your feedback Magi... I think folding KK on a Js 3s 2h flop is probably a little weak-tight, regardless of how the betting goes.  I think the number of times you'll see your opponent flip over QQ, TT, AsKs, AsQs, AxJx, KxJx, XsYs, etc... makes it a pretty easy call. 

Of course, this time, you're right, I should have folded.  But I think that most of the time, KK on a J32 2-suited flop will be the best hand. 

I'm reading Harrington's book right now (and loving it I might add) and he says that online players will make bets, raises, and calls that you don't often see in a B&M game.  Now, my opponent could have been thinking that my pot-sized flop bet was one such bet.  And, I was thinking that his minimum raise (despite the fact that it was for 600 more) was one such bet.  Basically, the fact that I bet the pot on the flop is meaningless to some players who hold AJ, so the fact that they come back at me shouldn't make me think I should fold KK here. 

I know it was a 1K buy-in tournament, but I was working under the assumption that most players--like me--got in through low buy-in satellites.  Looking at some of the play on that table, I think my assumption was correct. 

ScottyZ

Of course, this time, you're right, I should have folded.

The fact that you have gained the true knowledge of your opponent's hand makes no poker decision wrong that was previously right, or vice versa.

I think you have an easy call with the KK here (for pretty much the same reasons you mentioned).

On a side note, I found the hand history a little confusing at first. This

all_aces: Bet (600)
Yumi#1 : Fold
Mr.Nancy: Raise (1,200)
all_aces: Raise All-in (895)

means (I think) that you bet out 600, your opponent raised by 600 more to 1,200, and you moved in for your last 895 (matching your opponent's 600 and putting in your last 295). Right?

Your opponent's flop raise doesn't have nearly as much zing as it looked like it did on my first glance.

ScottyZ

Unknown

Exactly... on the flop, I bet the pot or so at 600, he raised 600, I re-raised all-in by matching his 600 raise and putting in my last 295 on top of that.  He called for his last 200, leaving me with 95 after the hand.  And yes, it was an easy call for me IMO, and one I would make again and again, despite the fact that it all but eliminated me from that particular tournament.  I posted these hands, really, to whine about my bad luck.    I didn't actually think anyone would have played them much differently, but hey, public forums, full of surprises!

WaterLooser

all_aces wrote:

I didn't actually think anyone would have played them much differently, but hey, public forums, full of surprises!

If you want surprises, post this on the stall wall in a public washroom and see what kind of response you will get!

Unknown

Could you imagine walking into a bathroom stall and seeing 3 complete hand histories carefully written on the wall? We will know that poker has officially jumped the shark...

ScottyZ

all_aces wrote:

Could you imagine walking into a bathroom stall and seeing 3 complete hand histories carefully written on the wall? We will know that poker has officially jumped the shark...

I'd imagine nothing more than bad beat story after bad beat story when it comes to posting hand histories on bathroom stall walls.

Now, an internet poker forum. That's a whole new ball game.

ScottyZ

magithighs

Whine about bad luck and look what you get -- advice!

For the record, my thoughts were more about giving yourself the better information post-flop by making a larger pre-flop bet, when you're out of position.  Then a seemingly harmless flop can give you pause for thought.  You can then decide, "yep it's an Internet tourney, I'm pushing" or not. 

Surprise!
Magi

Tilter

Tough break. KK losing to JJ and then getting KK only to run into AA. I think your first hand raise was ok, personally I am trying to get action early. With the amount of low qualifiers, you want to take their chips before you run into the big guns. Probably a 13K prize package, so you would only need about 15-20K in chips and then you could just sit out and let other ppl take care of each other.