Playing Against drawing hands in Tournies.

Howdy,

I'd like to get some advice on these situations;

Presume typical intermediate players NL tourney;

Stacks at table are average, lets say 4k blinds 100/200

You hold AK one caller to 4x preflop raise;

Board comes A67, bet out, get reraised all in. Call?
Assuming your pretty sure the other guy doesnt have a set A, 6 or 7.

Same situation but its 2 to a flush on board.

Yes you win 2/3 of the time, But the one third of the time your done.

When you have the best of it, but there is a thirty percent chance your day is done, what do you do?

Thanks

Comments

  • That's not a small edge. It is a huge one. I would call.

    Look at it this way: If he had checked, you'd be putting in a large bet anyway. If he chose to reraise all-in, you would call. So why not now?

    Only thing to think about is what if he got amazingly lucky and flopped an open-ended straight flush draw? He'd be a slight favourite. But would he have called a 4xBB bet with small-to-medium suited connectors? Maybe but I doubt it...

    I'm not even sure he'd call with 66 or 77 pre-flop but that is more likely. Maybe he had a suited ace and now has 2 pr with a backdoor flush draw? The point of the pre-flop raise was to chase those kind of hands out.

    What kind of hand would he need to have to call 4xBB pre-flop? I guess that varies by the player (risk profile/capability), the size of his stack (cost) and the size of yours (opportunity).
  • Assuming your pretty sure the other guy doesnt have a set A, 6 or 7.

    I can't really imagine being up against a player where I would be able to rule out all of these hands.

    But as for the main question, supposing I somehow knew that my opponent had no pair, no set, and 9-outs (plus a backdoor 2 pair draw) or less*, it's an easy call. I'd take any 2-1 win edge I could get in a tournament, even if the consequence of losing the hand is being busted.

    ScottyZ

    *Which means I am also going to have to rule out the 12-out and 15-out draws.
  • ScottyZ wrote:
    *Which means I am also going to have to rule out the 12-out and 15-out draws.
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding this but if I hold AK, is it possible for him to have a 12- or 15-out draw?
  • Ok, I was reasonably sure that the opponent didnt have pockets as Im seeing all in preflop with Aj or higher and pockets.

    Just ultra -aggressive players.

    I did make the calls in three different cases, and lost in all three cases.

    one flush and two str draws, and I was crippled 2wice and knocked out once.

    Down goes $150 in tourney fee's.

    Kinda bitten, so just wondering if these edges are to sharp for long term tourney success?

    BTW, these guys hadn't been "tricky" all night, hence I did not suspect the sets...

    On the other hand I had a great table image, picking up a lot of small pots on bluffs and winning a couple big ones with the nutz (not typically my style) so how do you account for others BAD play? Cash games is easy you rebuy, but tournies yer done.
  • pkrfce9 wrote:
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding this but if I hold AK, is it possible for him to have a 12- or 15-out draw?

    Flush draw + gutshot or flush draw + open ended

    ScottyZ
  • pkrfce9 wrote:
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding this but if I hold AK, is it possible for him to have a 12- or 15-out draw?

    Well kinda, if you have 89 and the flop is A6s7s, four to the flush gives 9 and the remaining 6 non suited T and 5's makes 15.

    The redraw could give more if a 6 or 7 falls.

    On the 67 suited though I wouldnt have a problem laying it down. Im actually behind in the hand.
  • Redington wrote:
    Kinda bitten, so just wondering if these edges are to sharp for long term tourney success?
    If you had a set of aces, would you have felt any better about the call? Even bigger edge - same result.

    Punish the bad players. Sometimes you lose but most of the time you win and build a nice stack to punish some more. Don't feel bad about losing a few of those in the row. You are building up kharma. A good tantrum here and there helps, too.

    Come to think of it, after that last cash game, I've got a boatload of kharma headed my way. Tonight I shall be 'The Punisher'. I don't think any of the punishees will be playing though... :mad:
  • Redington wrote:
    Im actually behind in the hand.
    IF you can put him on 89s or 45s in the right suit. AND that person would be willing to put in 20% of his stack pre-flop. I guess it could happen but I have to think I'd be willing to gamble against it.

    I'll put it out there again: what kind of hands would someone call a 4xBB bet against someone who has a tight-aggressive image at the table? Tighter than Kory's girlfriend anyway...
  • pkrfce9 wrote:
    If you had a set of aces, would you have felt any better about the call? Even bigger edge - same result.

    Punish the bad players. Sometimes you lose but most of the time you win and build a nice stack to punish some more. Don't feel bad about losing a few of those in the row. You are building up kharma. A good tantrum here and there helps, too.

    Come to think of it, after that last cash game, I've got a boatload of kharma headed my way. Tonight I shall be 'The Punisher'. I don't think any of the punishees will be playing though... :mad:

    Oh great, so your saying I wont be able to bad beat you tonight with a 52s into a $15 raise?
    Too bad, I wanted to show Danny how it is done! Guess I will just have to beat you straight up

    :wink::tongue::D
  • pkrfce9 wrote:
    IF you can put him on 89s or 45s in the right suit. AND that person would be willing to put in 20% of his stack pre-flop. I guess it could happen but I have to think I'd be willing to gamble against it.

    I'll put it out there again: what kind of hands would someone call a 4xBB bet against someone who has a tight-aggressive image at the table? Tighter than Kory's girlfriend anyway...

    Um, well normally me, but I would have to have a BIG stack to take those gambles.
    When everyone is clse, it seems like there is always a few on Pokerstars or Party for example;

    This was my favorite, now Im wondering if it is rigged

    Dealt to Roswel [2s 4d]
    bighairlol: folds
    PBTIM: calls 30
    KisMETic: calls 30
    xTroutFishx: calls 30
    brandonmtx: folds
    Roswel: folds
    DirtyVegas44: calls 30
    gambelero: raises 1020 to 1050 and is all-in
    tennis300: folds
    PBTIM: calls 1020
    KisMETic: folds
    xTroutFishx: folds
    DirtyVegas44: folds
    KisMETic said, "oh"
    *** FLOP *** [Jd 8s Ts]
    gambelero said, "youwin"
    *** TURN *** [Jd 8s Ts] [Ad]
    *** RIVER *** [Jd 8s Ts Ad] [Qs]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    gambelero: shows [Jc Js] (three of a kind, Jacks)
    PBTIM: shows [Kd 3c] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
    PBTIM collected 2220 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 2220 | Rake 0
    Board [Jd 8s Ts Ad Qs]
    Seat 1: xTroutFishx folded before Flop
    Seat 2: brandonmtx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 3: Roswel folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 4: DirtyVegas44 (button) folded before Flop
    Seat 5: gambelero (small blind) showed [Jc Js] and lost with three of a kind, Jacks
    Seat 6: tennis300 (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 7: bighairlol folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: PBTIM showed [Kd 3c] and won (2220) with a straight, Ten to Ace
    Seat 9: KisMETic folded before Flop

    So where is the karmha blow job I get for playing against this guy all night?
  • If you're comparing how tight you play to Kory's ex-girlfriend, are you going all-in with 7-2 offsuit!?!?

    He's gonna kill me....

    meh... :tongue:

    Dane
  • GreatDane wrote:
    If you're comparing how tight you play to Kory's ex-girlfriend, are you going all-in with 7-2 offsuit!?!?

    He's gonna kill me....

    meh... :tongue:

    Dane

    Either way I see anal tearing on the horizon!
  • I hear it is very easy to get 'all-in' with Kory's girlfriend. Watch out for the backdoor flush...

    This thread has gone right down the toilet.

    All-in with k3o! Who was that - Danny or Richie?

    As for the kharma thingy, you'll have to speak to your wife.
  • "Yeah, I know she's easy..." - Me
Sign In or Register to comment.