20ish BBs middle pair

trigs

how would you play this?

PokerStars $3.00+$0.30 USD Hold'em No Limit Level VII (50/100)
9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: YFJ21 (3702 in chips)
Seat 2: Mirc91 (7550 in chips)
Seat 3: VILLAIN (7505 in chips)
Seat 4: dysiclawl (5150 in chips)
Seat 5: seat_mark_20 (6857 in chips)
Seat 6: HERO (2205 in chips) <-22 BB stack
Seat 7: CarroDeMalan (2580 in chips)
Seat 8: Still620 (2681 in chips)
Seat 9: Mhr. Dennis (2032 in chips)
YFJ21: posts the ante 10
Mirc91: posts the ante 10
VILLAIN: posts the ante 10
dysiclawl: posts the ante 10
seat_mark_20: posts the ante 10
HERO: posts the ante 10
CarroDeMalan: posts the ante 10
Still620: posts the ante 10
Mhr. Dennis: posts the ante 10
Mirc91: posts small blind 50
VILLAIN: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [9c 9h]
dysiclawl: folds
seat_mark_20: folds
HERO: raises 100 to 200
CarroDeMalan: folds
Still620: folds
Mhr. Dennis: folds
YFJ21: folds
Mirc91: folds
VILLAIN: raises 540 to 740
HERO: ?

Wetts1012

If you havent been getting out of line and villain isnt too big of a spaz then its a fold. Your EP open tightens his range.

If you did the same thing on the button and villain 3bs you the same amount I get it in.

Colin408

He probably put you on a low pair and trying to bluff you out.Your raise is kind of small for 99, should have bet 3x-5x based on your stack.IMO Would have announced that you had a good hand. It was kind of a bad bet to begin with because of the amount of people that had yet to act, if 1 or 2 would have limped your 99 is pretty weak and your basically just giving away chips if you don't hit.

Your only options are really to push all-in or fold.

But seeing as we don't have any information on how you or the other guy play it's hard to say what to do. If he is conservative you fold,if he is playing aggressive re raise all in.

westside8

Colin408 wrote: »

Your raise is kind of small for 99, should have bet 3x-5x based on your stack.

Do not let your hand strength dictate your raise size.

And what Wetts said, assuming you haven't gotten out of line and villain isn't a huge aggro, I lean towards a fold where as if you opened in LP it's a pretty easy ship

Colin408

Yeah but why would you invite people in to see a flop with 99? Yes your trying to get more chips,but 99 isn't the hand to do it with. If you had 2-3 people call your basically screwed already and gave away another 200 chips. It might be a decent play if your in later position and looking for a re-raise from the bb and shipping all-in.

If people raised double every time in that position with 99, the majority of the time your going to lose your money.

trigs

only 34 hands on villain. best read is he's standard. hasn't done anything crazy of note. my rep should be fairly tight.

i don't agree with a bigger preflop raise there. i'd argue folding pre if that's the case.

we do have a 'reraise ship it' size of stack here though so i was interested in that aspect of the hand.

Colin408

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Bfillmaff

westside8 wrote: »

Do not let your hand strength dictate your raise size.

This is a very important point. Vary bets based on position, not hand value, (or just bet the same every time.)

We know we're in early position, so a smaller raise is in order. Anyone that would call a 2x will still call a 3x. 4 or 5x maybe gets you heads up, but now you are in an 11BB pot with 15BB behind, out of position, against an opponent who was willing to call 5x. To top it off there are not many flops that you are going to be thrilled about.

By betting 2x, you also gave your opponent the chance to raise, allowing him to expose information about his hand, while risking the minimum yourself. Your read would dictate a call or fold at that point, and as mentioned before, this guy was willing to raise an early position raiser so theres a decent chance he has something. Contrast that to raising 5x and being called, you have no idea where you are at and the action is on you.

As it played out, and given that there isn't much info on the 3bettor, you can figure to at best be coin-flipping - wait for a better spot!

Colin408

I'm going off the above book,and yes I know most poker books are wrong. I have noticed a lot better results after following most of the guidelines in the book though. It does say to play a bit more conservative 3rd but I have a feeling the same 2x bet would have been made in the others as well.

Bfillmaff

Sure, as a general idea, yes - but remember that poker is a situational game and every situation is different. In this case, your stack of 22BB's dictates a deviation from 'standard' play.

Colin408

Bfillmaff wrote: »

Sure, as a general idea, yes - but remember that poker is a situational game and every situation is different. In this case, your stack of 22BB's dictates a deviation from 'standard' play.

Yeah true, you guys have been playing a lot longer then me and know more so I'm not going to argue! With that being said I still don't think either of them are bad plays. They both got there advantages,etc...

My reasoning is that if he has been a fairly tight player a 5x raise might have won him the hand right there,but on the same note if he gets called and two larger cards come he just wasted the 5bb's. I'm mostly looking at the initial bet and not what the BB re-raise indicated.

I usually have a problem with these hand overviews because I would need to be at the table myself and have my own reads,etc...

Colin408

I guess my way is a little more risky then usual. I look at it this way, the difference between 20bbs and 17 is very little in my opinion in this situation. I'll usually take the risk of buying the blinds/antes. If he calls and two overs come I lose. If they don't, I see what he does and act from there. If he raises I fold and lose my 5bbs.

But that way is also a dumb way to play because If I look at it that way, then what is the difference between 22bb and 24bb?? lol....

Note to self: I have a lot to learn lol

Bfillmaff

Colin408 wrote: »

so I'm not going to argue!

oh but please do!! discussion is always good, and if you can make a case for your play then who is to say you are wrong? there are plenty of different ways to win at this game!


PS that book feels like Harrington, am I right?

Bfillmaff

and the real mistake was being dealt 99, 1010, or JJ out of position in the first place. It's just not fair!

Wetts1012

Did whatever book that is just advise us to 5x pre?

Colin408

Bfillmaff wrote: »

oh but please do!! discussion is always good, and if you can make a case for your play then who is to say you are wrong? there are plenty of different ways to win at this game!


PS that book feels like Harrington, am I right?

Yeah it's a Harrington on MTT book.

payperview

In this tourney I get it in. It appears pretty early so either dbl up or start a new one. He has two overs or pp so pick your poison.

Wetts1012

payperview wrote: »

In this tourney I get it in. It appears pretty early so either dbl up or start a new one. He has two overs or pp so pick your poison.

I dont see looking at hands in regards to the tournament BI. Would you get it in if the BI was $1k and just start a new one? A good EV decision is a good decision, regardless of BI.

Lets assume the buyin is significant to his bankroll.

An EP raise gets 3b to an amount where he's obviously calling if we jam. We have to assume his range is smashing our hand at this point.

actyper

3b sizing is huge here, so if you're suggesting this guy hasn't gotten out of hand, tells me it's one of those scared players who raise bigger when they do have a hand and would be flatting you with hands you dominate

trigs

FWIW i folded with the thought that i was most likely behind his range and that i still had a decent enough stack to work with. however, i was interested in hearing about the thought of the 4bet push.