Average player's skill level increasing?

Dave,

With so many tools and ways for poker players to improve their play readily available do you think profits in low and mid limit games (both cash and tourney) will to become more difficult to sustain for “expert players”. It seems to me that the average skill sets of players in increasing at an alarming rate. Understanding that long-term poker profit comes from making correct decisions, if most of your opponents are also making correct decisions will the rake not become even more difficult to overcome? Sometimes I wish it were more difficult to find poker educational material.

Comments

  • As a very green poker player, this has cross my mind many times as well. With the poker boom there will be a lot more games than a few years ago, but like you Braveheart, I wonder if these games will become less profitable over time. Would be interested to hear what more experienced players have to say on this topic

    Jay
  • Seems like a lot of writers on the subject of the state of poker agree that right now it is booming like it never has, but things will die down. The end result will be a higher plateau then when this whole thing began. As long as TV poker keeps representing the game like some modern day klondike things should remain fun.

    MS- "Vince you really have to respect his all in call with 6-4o. That is an advanced poker play right there!"

    VVP- "Oh right you are Mike, show tunes are going off in his head!!!"

    At some point people will wise up, the fish will say "screw this" and what will be left are players that do it for fun and play with the money they can afford to lose, the players that really work and try and elevate their game to shark status, and the sharks. A few fish will come and go but the vast majority of sheep will follow the herd to the next cool thing. See you at the finals of the 2010 world online bocce championship. I'll probably be railbirding. beh heh heh.... ;)
  • I'd say the overall skill level of poker players has significantly decreased over the last couple of years. Lots of new players have become intersted in poker, and simply being new (in general) puts them at the low end of the poker skill level spectrum, at least temporarily.

    Even with the proliferation of poker educational material available (some of it available for free) I'm often amazed at how little some players, both new and experienced, make use of it. I don't anticipate sitting at a table with 9 Sklansky-seasoned players too often when I sit down to play.

    My prediction for the future in terms of the current "poker boom" is that we have only seen the tip of the iceberg so far. Poker sure is hot now, but prepare for a virtual nuclear meltdown not too far down the road.

    ScottyZ
  • I have to agree that as long as online poker lives there will be a huge amount of people looking to play poker. Hold'em is the hot game now...probably will stay that way and will always have the larger percentage not really understanding how to win consistently.
  • I think you see a lot of people having their skill increase. It is an inevitable side effect of the amount of on-line poker. It may be good, it may be bad. I only view it is more people to play against and that's a good thing.
  • On the other side of the coin, you have many opponents that are trying to emulate what they see on TV and losing a lot of money. Most online players are not very good either. It is a place where players can improve their skill but most don't. All of which are very good things!!!
  • I would have to say that although the number of quality players has increased the number of fish has increased at a much greater rate thus lowering the average level of play.
  • What is meant be "level of skill?"

    I will define it (selfishly) as "a player that I find difficult to play against."

    Many new players are learning more quickly than they used to and adding a little zigzag to their games sooner than they otherwise might. So, there are more skilled players -- particularly at lower limits than their used to be.

    But, there are also a lot more player in total. A lot more. Way more.

    Will it be hard to stay profitable? No. At least not for the near future -- as long as the huge influx continues.

    Thus, the "overall" level of skill is increasing, but the skills neccesary to beat low limit games remain the same as they always have been -- execute the fundamentals well and the rest will take care of itself.
  • Thanks for taking the time to reply everyone.

    As an interesting side note I have often wondered about the legendary huge limit – limit games the very top pros play in at the Bellagio. You have to assume they are all consistently making the mathematically correct plays; so won’t player who happens to get the best cards in any given session be the winner and over time they all will lose to the rake?
  • So with the large influx of new players, could one surmise that there are in fact a lot of bad players out there and they out number the skilled beginners thus resulting in a dilution of the quality of the lower limit tables?
    Many new players are learning more quickly than they used to and adding a little zigzag to their games sooner than they otherwise might. So, there are more skilled players -- particularly at lower limits than their used to be.

    But, there are also a lot more player in total. A lot more. Way more.

    Will it be hard to stay profitable? No. At least not for the near future -- as long as the huge influx continues.
  • I actually think that the percentage of good players -- even at low-limits -- is higher. Four years ago 10% of low-limit players were "good." Now, maybe 25%. So, the overall complexion of low-limit poker hasn't changed too much, but it has a little.

    Most players, although they will say different, do not REALLY want to learn how to win. They are gamblers -- the same as slot players -- but poker is where they have chosen to lose.
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