Trying to push my game further...through the forum.

In light of some very good discussion regarding reads vs odds I thought I would try to take it one step further. Where do YOU draw the line for basing decisions on odds or YOUR read? Is there ever a point in which YOU decide to call or fold even the odds tell you to do something else? Does it make a difference whether you're playing live or online?

As I stated previously I am working on making more and more plays based on reads rather than just odds alone. That being said I think it is important to incorporate both into the mix or you will sink rather than swim. Sometimes the prefect read still doesn't always permit a call or fold. As others have stated it is also important to take stack sizes, the money ladder, the type of tourney (rebuy, freeze out, sat.), and the often overlooked “how you’re playing” into consideration.

Your stack size compared to others at your table and in the tourney will often have a very large impact on your decisions at the table. This is fairly obvious but what are some overlooked points regarding stack size?

The money ladder to me is often something I try to take out equation (although I admit that it will sometimes start to overshadow into my decision making process) when we are talking about bubbling out. Since the money for squeaking in is often not enough to make much difference financially then I really try not to think about it. Although placing in the money does sometimes help stroke the ego a bit. When getting to the final table though there are times when I make decisions based on moving up another spot. This usually means folding a hand I might otherwise call with if the money jump wasn't significant. How do you take the money ladder into consideration?

Do you play differently in different types of tourneys? I haven't played many satellites but I generally play a lot looser during a rebuy period then I will in a freeze out but tightening up after the rebuys are gone. In satellites I guess it makes most to try and figure what stack size you need to make the cut, get there, and then sit on your hands. I'm often terrible at sitting on my hands.

Well, the last point I want to touch on now is something Dave S. brought to light for me first. He mentions (can't think of specific times) when you need to play within your game at that given time. You need to take into consideration whether your playing your "A" game or less. This was definitely something I had not thought of previously but has made a very large impact on my results. Sometimes I need to slow down and play ABC because my brain is just not functioning (in a cash game you should walk away but if you're in a tourney you need to play through the mental stuff). I often question myself while playing as I find that it helps me understand what I'm thinking and why. I have caught myself on tilt or near tilt and have been able to stop myself from making bad (costly) plays just because I'm pissed. I think playing within your own game is often one of the most over-looked functions in poker.

Well here's a start. I am really hoping to start some discussion here. Let's see what you got.

Comments

  • Maybe this is slightly off topic, but do you guys ever make a call in a tourney situation where the cost is small, simply to get information on a player (or to confirm/disconfirm a read)? Basically just paying for a little information if the cost is not severely damaging to your stack... Maybe it's just me and my morbid curiosity... :)

  • In light of some very good discussion regarding reads vs odds I thought I would try to take it one step further. Where do YOU draw the line for basing decisions on odds or YOUR read? Is there ever a point in which YOU decide to call or fold even the odds tell you to do something else? Does it make a difference whether you're playing live or online?

    Great question. More starter thoguhts coming...



    Good food for thought. My steam of consciousness answer is I find myself in one of three situations:



    (1) I have a solid read

    (2) I think I have a read

    (3) I have no read at all.



    If I have a solid read, I go with it. Am I always right? Nope. But, my experience is that if I FEEL pretty certain about something I am right a very high percentage of the time. If I am in this position I am likely to gamble EVERYTHING on my read.



    If I “think I have a read” then I am pretty apt to go with it unless the consequences of being wrong are sever – elimination from the tournament for example. I will take the safe approach if I don’t feel darn certain.



    If I have no read, then I go with the percentages I suppose.




    Your stack size compared to others at your table and in the tourney will often have a very large impact on your decisions at the table. This is fairly obvious but what are some overlooked points regarding stack size?

    Stack size, for me, shifts the certainty of things. For instance, if I am in the “think I have a read” category with a big stack then it is more likely that I will call since the consequences of losing will not be as severe.



    For me, the biggest aspect of “stack management” is relating it to risk. Like the stock market, risk is often related to return. Where does my retirement nest egg sit? How much risk should I be willing to expose myself to? Tiny stack = big risk. Big stack = big risk. Middle stack = why jeopardize my retirement?




    The money ladder to me is often something I try to take out equation (although I admit that it will sometimes start to overshadow into my decision making process) when we are talking about bubbling out. Since the money for squeaking in is often not enough to make much difference financially then I really try not to think about it. Although placing in the money does sometimes help stroke the ego a bit. When getting to the final table though there are times when I make decisions based on moving up another spot. This usually means folding a hand I might otherwise call with if the money jump wasn't significant. How do you take the money ladder into consideration?


    Personally, I usually don’t. At the risk of being glib, “I play to win.” I cannot think of a single instance in which I have folded a hand in order to “sneak up the money ladder.” As Sklansky has explained, this is (at time) a negative EV play. It probably is, but I suspect that it’s rare. All of the money is in the top three spots. I am always on the lookout to get enough chips to get there. Always. Maximum EV? Probably not, but I am not savvy enough to sort it out in the heat of combat and I like winning. It’s more fun than being 7th.


    Do you play differently in different types of tourneys? I haven't played many satellites but I generally play a lot looser during a rebuy period then I will in a freeze out but tightening up after the rebuys are gone. In satellites I guess it makes most to try and figure what stack size you need to make the cut, get there, and then sit on your hands. I'm often terrible at sitting on my hands.


    I often play tight in the re-buy period. For most re-buy tournaments, all that is really determined in the re-buy period is your entry fee. I am interested in minimizing my fee. Don’t gamble it up. Look for chances to get your money in with the best of it (they will be there since every one else is gambling it up) and take them when they arrive. Go ahead and push small edges because you are protected by the rebuy period, but don’t go crazy.

    do you guys ever make a call in a tourney situation where the cost is small, simply to get information on a player (or to confirm/disconfirm a read)?
    Someone else asked me this recently. No, I don't. I prefer to know. There are enough clues to use that I am not interested in wasting chips making a call to see if I am right.
  • [/font][/color]I often play tight in the re-buy period. For most re-buy tournaments, all that is really determined in the re-buy period is your entry fee. I am interested in minimizing my fee. Don’t gamble it up. Look for chances to get your money in with the best of it (they will be there since every one else is gambling it up) and take them when they arrive. Go ahead and push small edges because you are protected by the rebuy period, but don’t go crazy.

    Wouldn't you be more interested in playing a speculative hand like 87s in a rebuy period (provided you can get in cheaply), given that you are more likely to get paid off when you hit a big hand, since everyone else is gambling it up? Or by saying you play tight do you simply mean you don't try to steal too much?
  • Generally, rebuy periods are not the time to steal. When I say looser, I don't mean preflop. My starting hand requirements generally stay the same but my looser play will be calling someone down with lesser hands than I would normally need. I agree with Dave there are enough players willing to rebuy 'til the cows come home and will bluff their stack away.
  • Wouldn't you be more interested in playing a speculative hand like 87s in a rebuy period (provided you can get in cheaply), given that you are more likely to get paid off when you hit a big hand, since everyone else is gambling it up? Or by saying you play tight do you simply mean you don't try to steal too much?
    Yes, cheap. What I do not expect is that I will be able to manipulate my opponents. They will be prone to call. Or, at least, less predictable since in the back of their mind is, "Well, I can alays re-buy."

    The big mistake that I see people make to gamble and win, but then not put on the breaks. If you have doubled your stack then they speculate? You have succeeded. You have added a bunch of chips. If you now lose them you will have to re-buy and spend more money.
Sign In or Register to comment.