You make the play #4

ScottyZ

2/4 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Wed Apr 14 19:16:17 EDT 2004
Table Table 11363 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: LittleWyvern ( $245)
Seat 2: dahc10 ( $50)
Seat 3: BrokeNvegas ( $39)
Seat 4: ScottyZ ( $166)
Seat 5: MaxVo_ ( $171)
Seat 6: drhenner ( $53)
Seat 7: Wythe ( $101.25)
Seat 8: Charlesstin ( $121.25)
Seat 9: Greyhoss ( $119)
Seat 10: ragu808 ( $54.75)
ScottyZ posts small blind (1)
MaxVo_ is sitting out.
drhenner posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ScottyZ [ Tc, Ac ]
Wythe folds.
Charlesstin folds.
Greyhoss folds.
ragu808 folds.
LittleWyvern calls (2)
dahc10 calls (2)
BrokeNvegas folds.
ScottyZ calls (1)
drhenner checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2h, Td, 4d ]
ScottyZ bets (2)
drhenner folds.
LittleWyvern calls (2)
dahc10 calls (2)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5s ]
ScottyZ bets (4)
LittleWyvern folds.
dahc10 calls (4)
** Dealing River ** : [ 3d ]

Check or bet?

ScottyZ

professor

Check and call. You've only got the bad end of the straight and he could have been on a flush draw the whole way. There are a few hands you can beat that would call you, but you'd have to fold to a raise.
I'd play it safe and not try for an extra bet in this spot since I think there's a fair chance that my hand is no longer good.

professor

...but you'd have to fold to a raise.

(Ooops, that was my no-limit voice.)

You'd probably have to call the raise even if losing, as he might be raising with the same straight as you. Calling an extra bet to either chop or lose is no fun, so I say don't bet in the first place.

djw

I would think they were both playing straight or flush draws. I wouldn't count on them calling through with overcards to the river. I would probably bet here and if I was re-raised I would fold. If you check, I think that you would encourage at least one of them to bluff so you would have to throw in a single bet either way.

I also doubt someone would slow play trips on the flop, but it's a possibility. I can't see them having a hand that would include a 6 but it's low limit, and you never know what the BB has

vinsanity

Easy check call I think. I've lost a lot of bets this way by betting and then having to make a crying call just to see his flush or higher straight.

stpboy

As a rule, I very rairly bet on the river. Especially if a scare card appears. You never know what people are staying in on, I may loose more money then I win in the long run but it takes the 'tilt' factor out of it. For this fairly low risk play (it is low limit) I would check and call. The trick with all of these hands is to put your opponents on a hand, unfortunately with low limit hands you really never know what people are holding.

stp

rroarr

I also think the right play is check and call.

However, in the heat of the game there's a good chance I would have actually bet (and called while cursing if raised). When I play online and bet on the flop and the turn with what I think is the best , I get on a roll and it's hard to stop betting on the river, especially if my hand improves to a stronger holding.

ScottyZ

Okay, that one was too easy for y'all I guess.

Good comments.

I checked here with the intention of calling.

This is a good example of a vital river betting concept from Sklansky. To summarize what he says, when you are deciding whether or not to bet the river, you have to consider the chances that your hand is good *if you are called*. That last card is a scary card to me, but moreso to my opponent *if* it didn't help him. So I'm probably not going to get a last "value call" from a worse hand than mine (like maybe a pair of 4's). I figure I'm only going to get called here (and probably raised) if I am losing.

ScottyZ checks.
dahc10 checks.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $21 | Rake: $1
Board: [ 2h Td 4d 5s 3d ]
LittleWyvern balance $241, lost $4 (folded)
dahc10 balance $42, lost $8 [ Kh 9h ] [ high card king -- Kh,Td,9h,5s,4d ]
BrokeNvegas balance $39, didn't bet (folded)
ScottyZ balance $179, bet $8, collected $21, net +$13 [ Tc Ac ] [ a straight, ace to five -- Ac,5s,4d,3d,2h ]
drhenner balance $51, lost $2 (folded)
Wythe balance $101.25, didn't bet (folded)
Charlesstin balance $121.25, didn't bet (folded)
Greyhoss balance $119, didn't bet (folded)
ragu808 balance $54.75, didn't bet (folded)

professor

djw wrote:

If you check, I think that you would encourage at least one of them to bluff so you would have to throw in a single bet either way.

Another good reason to check!

SupaMuncher

Wow! That one was over before I even GOT to it. Soo...ummm...yeah. I woulda checked and called, too.... :oops:

DJP

djw wrote:

I also doubt someone would slow play trips on the flop, but it's a possibility.

I've held onto 3 aces to the river a few times now, soft pedalling all the way. lol Better if more players stay in too. Big pot, but without much large individual betting. No one gets scared off. The good ones are when there are still no flush draws or straight draws possible, after the river card is dealt. Even if a board pair is visible, your aces are still boss to any other trip for a full house, so there aren't many hands that can beat you. (quads) I've collected big in this scenario a couple times. I've seen it go the other way too though, with flush draws that were heartbreaking to fold to on the river. It is very hard to lay down 3 aces, but I've done it 2 or 3 times now. Depends entirely on the hand. Sometimes it helps to throw one of these plays into a game at the right moment, just to mess with the competition a bit. lol Anyone who stayed in that hand, seems to end up edgy for the next hand or two. lol Usually get a bigger pot than going all in right after flop too, mostly because you don't scare any money away early.