Game theory question?

blackmagiczblackmagicz
in MTT Strategy
Hey guys,

I was bored on the weekend and I decided to drop a few bucks onto pokerstars and I satellited my way into the 109.00 tourney. Now I am looking for some game theory based on these hands.

I am pretty sure I butchered these hands but what I am trying to figure out is how am I balancing here with calling vs raising. You will see what I mean in hand 1 vs hand 2.

Hand 1 I think I am being stubborn trying to rep a bigger hand and I think it got sniffed out. Hand 2 is a cooler but I think my pre-flop call is incorrect.

As always all advice is appreciated.


Hand 1

PokerStars Hand #73841102580: Tournament #555010446, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2012/01/14 13:04:58 ET
Table '555010446 11' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: blackmagicz (3070 in chips)
Seat 2: asus111 (2850 in chips)
Seat 3: pinkfoxx (2865 in chips)
Seat 4: Trekan61 (2970 in chips)
Seat 5: reeraisee (2920 in chips)
Seat 6: and1tiger (3235 in chips)
Seat 7: ramondemon77 (2970 in chips)
Seat 8: leopeluca (3080 in chips)
Seat 9: Doommy (2930 in chips)
Doommy: posts small blind 10
blackmagicz: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to blackmagicz [Kd Ac]
asus111: folds
pinkfoxx: folds
Trekan61: raises 30 to 50
reeraisee: folds
and1tiger: raises 151 to 201
ramondemon77: folds
leopeluca: folds
Doommy: folds
blackmagicz: raises 219 to 420
Trekan61: folds
and1tiger: calls 219
*** FLOP *** [8h 2h 3d]
blackmagicz: bets 440
and1tiger: calls 440
*** TURN *** [8h 2h 3d] [3c]
blackmagicz: checks
and1tiger: checks
*** RIVER *** [8h 2h 3d 3c] [2s]
blackmagicz: checks
and1tiger: bets 855
blackmagicz: folds
Uncalled bet (855) returned to and1tiger
and1tiger collected 1780 from pot
and1tiger: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1780 | Rake 0
Board [8h 2h 3d 3c 2s]
Seat 1: blackmagicz (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 2: asus111 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: pinkfoxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Trekan61 folded before Flop
Seat 5: reeraisee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: and1tiger collected (1780)
Seat 7: ramondemon77 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: leopeluca (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Doommy (small blind) folded before Flop

Hand 2
PokerStars Hand #73843900513: Tournament #555010446, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (40/80) - 2012/01/14 13:52:28 ET
Table '555010446 11' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: blackmagicz (3861 in chips)
Seat 2: asus111 (4966 in chips)
Seat 3: kiskin1979 (1157 in chips)
Seat 4: Trekan61 (3136 in chips)
Seat 5: supernova543 (4620 in chips)
Seat 6: and1tiger (7876 in chips)
Seat 7: ramondemon77 (2756 in chips)
Seat 8: leopeluca (1534 in chips)
Seat 9: Doommy (2984 in chips)
blackmagicz: posts the ante 10
asus111: posts the ante 10
kiskin1979: posts the ante 10
Trekan61: posts the ante 10
supernova543: posts the ante 10
and1tiger: posts the ante 10
ramondemon77: posts the ante 10
leopeluca: posts the ante 10
Doommy: posts the ante 10
asus111: posts small blind 40
kiskin1979: posts big blind 80
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to blackmagicz [Ah Kh]
Trekan61: raises 88 to 168
supernova543: folds
and1tiger: folds
ramondemon77: folds
leopeluca: folds
Doommy: folds
blackmagicz: calls 168
asus111: folds
kiskin1979: folds
*** FLOP *** [2c Kc Ks]
Trekan61: bets 273
blackmagicz: raises 847 to 1120
Trekan61: calls 847
*** TURN *** [2c Kc Ks] [Jc]
Trekan61: checks
blackmagicz: bets 2563 and is all-in
Trekan61: calls 1838 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (725) returned to blackmagicz
*** RIVER *** [2c Kc Ks Jc] [3d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Trekan61: shows [2h 2d] (a full house, Deuces full of Kings)
blackmagicz: shows [Ah Kh] (three of a kind, Kings)
Trekan61 collected 6462 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 6462 | Rake 0
Board [2c Kc Ks Jc 3d]
Seat 1: blackmagicz (button) showed [Ah Kh] and lost with three of a kind, Kings
Seat 2: asus111 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: kiskin1979 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Trekan61 showed [2h 2d] and won (6462) with a full house, Deuces full of Kings
Seat 5: supernova543 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: and1tiger folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: ramondemon77 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: leopeluca folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Doommy folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Comments

  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    in the early levels I don't usually 3 bet AK for value as no one really will get it in with worse like AQ etc....Let alone cold 4 bet. Good idea to give up on the turn though. I would've prob flatted the 3 bet pre as you don't really want to turn AK into a bluff. If you 4 bet it and he shoves its kind of a gross spot where you almost have to call but you prob shouldn't. Id prob just fold this flop to his cbet too, because knowing me if a heart came off Id try to rep that which results in me getting stacked and tilted haha :P

    In hand 2 I like the flat in position from the EP raiser. On the flop raising is fine but I feel like your losing a lot of value by raising so big. Just over min raising has been fun for me lately, so I would've made it like 660ish. Then if he flats we need to decide whether or not to try to stack him and bet the turn or check it back and fire hard on the turn for 3/4 pot so like 1300-1400. Deciding on which really depends on your opinion of villain.
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    Thank you....that is exactly the kind of information I was looking for!!!!!

    ****GOLD****

    I believe that is one of my biggest leaks is understanding situational spots like this and figuring out optimum lines.
  • ryanghallryanghall
    Folding hand 1 is fine pre, tbh, unless you have a particular read. That's a big 3bet.

    Hand 2 is just a huge cooler. Calling and raising flop are both fine, depending on opponent.
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    ryanghall wrote: »
    Folding hand 1 is fine pre, tbh, unless you have a particular read. That's a big 3bet.

    Hand 2 is just a huge cooler. Calling and raising flop are both fine, depending on opponent.

    Pretty standard 3bet imo
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    Pretty standard 3bet imo

    hand 1 or 2? (1 was 4bet)
  • actyperactyper
    Tigers 3bet which was 4x. Not really that big considering its level 1
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    yes tigers 3 bet, believe ryan is saying that is a big 3 bet, but I'm probably never 3betting smaller than that in level 1. Any smaller and basically being called by most peoples whole opening range.
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    I think with the first hand I was a little stubborn because it was early and I am used people showing up with junk or weaker hands then my range for my raise. But as we see he obviously had something he wasn't going to give up with in the first hand. I have to get used to releasing a little earlier and not bloating a pot like that.

    The second hand I was thinking afterwards maybe a raise pre instead of just a call may have pushed his 2s away? I had a lot of respect at that table after showing down a few winners and because of our stacks I think I may have just taken it down pre.

    Admittedly the shove on the turn was a poor decision on my end, just got a little anxious with the AK. The call of my big raise should have been an indication of him having a hand. I mean the turn completes a lot of hands and I am still drawing.

    Thanks again for the input guys I appreciate it.
  • VekkedVekked
    why did you raise pre in hand 1? (not saying it's good or bad, it depends on your reasons)

    don't raise flop on hand 2, there's just not much he can look you up with. You're being completely results oriented about hand 2 in your most recent post, like you said it was a cooler, you're reading into his flop call after knowing he flopped a boat, the turn doesn't complete many hands and you're not still drawing either.

    What stakes do you normally play? I think maybe you're just being kind of overwhelmed at this level, no need to play these tournies yet, nothing wrong with chilling in lowerstakes and getting your fundamentals solid.
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    meh he satellited into it, think its a good tourney to take a shot at if you satellite into it.
  • VekkedVekked
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    meh he satellited into it, think its a good tourney to take a shot at if you satellite into it.

    I guessss, I'm a nit and always take the money cuz exactly 0 shots of mine have ever really worked out. Depends on the roll and such I guess.
  • Scotty12Scotty12
    Agree with everything Betrthanphil has to say in this thread
  • Rob_10108Rob_10108
    Hand 1 - Just call pre, not 4betting with ace high this early, these plays are only really profitable when your deeper. Check/Fold when you miss.

    Hand 2 - Pre is fine, again too early to be raising here. Raise less on the flop 695-800. Don't think I'm ever getting away from this hand here. Cooler, gg
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