ofc it's a moral issue, they're taking advantage of people who doesn't know better
and there's no need to convince everyone to stop, it's enough letting the people you see doing it know that you don't approve, I'm not looking to solve anything
Last time I checked, no one forced those guys to pay more than they want to. If everyone decided to not pay extra for these tickets, than there will be no market.
Scalping is not illegal everywhere. In Alberta, it's legal. It works both ways. The sellers profit on high demand games, but sometimes they can't even sell tickets to Oilers games. Pretty sure no one feels sorry for them when that happens.
Both the buyer/seller are aware how much the ticket are worth. They agree on a price and both get what they want at the end. Where's the moral issue?
This may be a legal issue, but it's not a moral issue.
The relevance of it being legal in other parts of the country is the reasoning behind why the law was scrapped in the first place, because the law is rarely enforced. I don't see how anyone is going to care about two people mutually agreeing to buy/sell tickets at a mark up.
If the seller was selling something other than what they claim the tickets are, then that's a moral issue.
People can decide to not wear a seat belt, drive 5km over the speed limit, jaywalk, etc....all those things may be illegal, but they're certainly not immoral.
People can decide to not wear a seat belt, drive 5km over the speed limit, jaywalk, etc....all those things may be illegal, but they're certainly not immoral.
I think you're simply wrong about this part, speeding and jaywalking can be considered immoral because they're illegal. As for scalping maybe some people do get what they want, but many just get what they think they want cause they don't know better. just as immoral as pretending to be psychic and profiting from it
I think one of the BIGGEST issues in life is when people confuse morality with legality. One is societies rules, the other personal beliefs. If scalping is illegal how do stubhub and others operate. Off shore?
Your opinion means a great deal to me when you, likely, dont know the definition of the words you are using.
Just because I disagree with the casino's policy and have a vendetta against scalping, I should sit this one out? Noted.
Great job assessing my character based off of a few passionate/angry posts on an internet forum.
I'm starting to think the reason that your girlfriends' parents never like you has little to do with your chosen profession. For someone to post repeated diatribes on a subject (including slandering a real-life friend publicly for what he has chosen to do as a business deal) and then, on the same forum, bump threads looking for seats to the exact venue that you are so passionately against certainly indicates to everyone that you have no character in reference to this crusade of yours.
Your lengthy posts have become hollow at best and make it clear that you are just upset that you did not get a ticket at what you perceive to be a fair mark-up. You need to grow-up and grow a pair and stop crying that you didn't get a ticket for $1150 or whatever you arbitrarily deem to be a fair price.
Your empty words are just as much an indicator of what is wrong with the poker playing professionals today as the actions of those scalping tickets. Grow a pair and have some conviction behind your words and then maybe your girlfriends' parents will see you as a man and not a child and have some level of approval of you. Or, better yet, maybe when you grow-up you will be strong enough not to care what your girlfriends' parents think of you at all.
Just because something is legal/illegal doesn't make it moral or immoral. Everyone has a different set of morals, and it's up to the individual to make that line. Scott thinks that scalping is immoral, and obviously Ryan does not. Who's right? Who's wrong?
As examples:
- Cheating on your spouse isn't against the law, but most think it's immoral
- Smoking around kids isn't against the law, but I would think most think it's immoral
- Some places it's against the law for gays/lesbians to get married, is that morally acceptable?
- If we view all laws as moral, then do we not object to what North Korea does to their people?
Obviously some things are extreme, but the point is laws and morals are not the same. I don't see how morals come into this discussion as to what is right and wrong in regards to scalping tickets, because everyone's opinion is different. There's not one view that is more correct than the other.
This is like religion, there's no point arguing over it, because everyone have different beliefs. Just accept that there's other views on the subject matter and move on.
I think you're simply wrong about this part, speeding and jaywalking can be considered immoral because they're illegal. As for scalping maybe some people do get what they want, but many just get what they think they want cause they don't know better. just as immoral as pretending to be psychic and profiting from it
One is societies rules, the other personal beliefs. If scalping is illegal how do stubhub and others operate. Off shore?
Yes, I think so. If you are listing something on eBay for an event located in Ontario, you cannot sell over face value. However, if you change your location to USA or Que, then you are in the clear.
It's clearly Fallsview policy that has created this situation. It's much easier for one entity to fix the problem than it is to assume that every person on earth will stop scalping. So the problem begins and ends with Fallsview. Try twitter/Facebook and other social medians to show display your displeasure. Boycott the event/poker room until there's changes. Why support a room with a policy you total disagree with?
Your anger is directed mainly to one person. You now know how much he views your friendship...apparently it worth less than the 15% equity you're giving up. So move on. Any additional energy you put into it...will be a waste of your time and energy.
I have tried twitter, maybe a petition with some big names on the front page is a better use of my time and energy.
Thanks for your posts, you seem like an intelligent gent. If you ever have any tournament hands you'd like my opinion on, please dont hesitate send them to me.
____________
I can admit I've handled this poorly and obviously overreacted. Its something Im clearly passionate about. Passion is just as much a part of my personality as treating others how I want to be treated. That is why Im upset here, not because 'I didnt get a ticket for $1150 or whatever I arbitrarily deem to be a fair price.' By the way, congrats on the correct use of arbitrarily!
Just because I am against Fallsviews policy doesn't eliminate my desire to take advantage of a soft live poker tournament. If that means my words are 'empty,' 'hollow,' or 'I lack conviction' maybe GTA Poker is smarter than I give him credit for and Im the idiot here.
Regardless, I hope everyone has a great evening. I also hope to get a $1k seat at an acceptable price, but thats something to worry about another time
I can admit I've handled this poorly and obviously overreacted. Its something Im clearly passionate about. Passion is just as much a part of my personality as treating others how I want to be treated. That is why Im upset here, not because 'I didnt get a ticket for $1150 or whatever I arbitrarily deem to be a fair price.' By the way, congrats on the correct use of arbitrarily!
Just because I am against Fallsviews policy doesn't eliminate my desire to take advantage of a soft live poker tournament. If that means my words are 'empty,' 'hollow,' or 'I lack conviction' maybe GTA Poker is smarter than I give him credit for and Im the idiot here.
Regardless, I hope everyone has a great evening. I also hope to get a $1k seat at an acceptable price, but thats something to worry about another time
Cheers
true story
thrice
I hope you tid, just don't pretend you are on some moral high ground when you are EXACTLY like every other poker player playing this event
clearly legal issues and moral issues are not one in the same, but regardless of the legality of the exact issue of what's going on in this 1k tournaments, I definitely think that a good argument can be made for some some of the stuff that's going on being a moral issue, I don't think it's close... obviously it's not that serious on the scale of all things immoral, you could do a lot worse, but it's clearly some bull shit
I don't see how some people don't understand where scotty is coming from. Its one thing to buy a ticket and plan to use it but are willing to sell it at a markup to make money as that is the point of playing in tournaments anyways. Its another to intentionally go and buy a mass amount of tickets wait for it to sell out then go ahead to basically dangle them in front of people who didn't get a chance to buy one yet. Just because you can do it doesn't make it right. However I know bitching about it won't do anything so Ive kept quiet on the matter, but don't understand how people don't get where scott is coming from here.
This is spot on. Similarly I've been kind of quiet since I'm sort of on the fence as to whether the people exploiting the system should be called out, since it IS mostly a fallsview issue afterall, but I do think it's at least mildly scummy to be scalping here, and I think it's definitely reasonable to expect some backlash if you're partaking in it. Although I wouldn't react the same way as Scotty myself, I think that he's relatively justified in being a bit upset if a friend was doing this, in the same way that I'd probably tell a friend to go fuck himself if he was trying to angle me somehow. Like if people want to sell 1.4:1 markup for tough online tournaments on 2p2 marketplace that's cool if you're fine with it yourself, but if my friend tries to sell me action for the Super Tuesday at 1.4:1 and he's serious he can suck a dick.
With any luck the policy will have changed by then. I wont hold my breath though!
Cheers
Just in case, I could grab one when they go on sale later this year, and hold it for you. It would be no trouble . . . you cover gas and expenses for the trip there and back, no mark up for the ducat.
Just in case, I could grab one when they go on sale later this year, and hold it for you. It would be no trouble . . . you cover gas and expenses for the trip there and back, no mark up for the ducat.
Its definitely worth considering. The biggest drawback would be when I busted first hand and was stuck at fallsview waiting for you to ship the tournament. Appreciate it Hahaha
Does Bramalea still have powerhouse softball teams?
You misunderstood . . . I meant gas and expenses for the initial purchase. As for softball . . . no idea, I played lacrosse . . . and yes, Bramalea is still pretty good, even if we are lumped in with Brampton now.
for an event located in Ontario, you cannot sell over face value.
All the FPC and WPT entries I won in Fallsview satellites did not have a face value or price. When I got an offer I could not refuse two years for the $1K entry I won, I first mistakenly gave the buyer a $125 satellite entry since Fallsview uses the same no-price form whether it is a $125 or $10,000 WPT entry! Even if there will be 1,000 undercover police officers at the FPC, I don't think they can charge anybody for selling a piece of paper with no face value. If somebody wants to pay $1,500+ for anything without a face value, whether it be toilet paper or a Fallsview form, they have a right to be stupid and no law is being broken.
Next year I will put up a post doing a forum run for tickets. I think I know 90% of the people on this thread personally and have met in person so when I post just tell me what tickets you want for the event and I will pick them up for you. I take the bus up to fallsview when I go so I don't care about the extra vig etc.
In a small community of poker players its unfortunate that people are trying to make a dime off of each other. Truly a lot of players on this board have made 1000s from each other in discussing hands, getting better, etc, so really to charge a fellow forum member or someone you know personally is a little nitty imo.
I think most people can agree 200-300 isn't going to make or break them so I don't really see the point of doing it. The people who scalp usually are broke poker players (at fallsview) and that's the only way they know how to make money.
Comments
and there's no need to convince everyone to stop, it's enough letting the people you see doing it know that you don't approve, I'm not looking to solve anything
Scalping is not illegal everywhere. In Alberta, it's legal. It works both ways. The sellers profit on high demand games, but sometimes they can't even sell tickets to Oilers games. Pretty sure no one feels sorry for them when that happens.
Both the buyer/seller are aware how much the ticket are worth. They agree on a price and both get what they want at the end. Where's the moral issue?
it was changed a couple years ago I believe, although prior to that I'd never seen or heard of it being enforced anyhow
but, it is illegal where this is taking place (Ontario).....laws in other areas of the country are not relevant
the easiest way to answer that is to ask why it is illegal to begin with I guess
The relevance of it being legal in other parts of the country is the reasoning behind why the law was scrapped in the first place, because the law is rarely enforced. I don't see how anyone is going to care about two people mutually agreeing to buy/sell tickets at a mark up.
If the seller was selling something other than what they claim the tickets are, then that's a moral issue.
People can decide to not wear a seat belt, drive 5km over the speed limit, jaywalk, etc....all those things may be illegal, but they're certainly not immoral.
I think you're simply wrong about this part, speeding and jaywalking can be considered immoral because they're illegal. As for scalping maybe some people do get what they want, but many just get what they think they want cause they don't know better. just as immoral as pretending to be psychic and profiting from it
I'm starting to think the reason that your girlfriends' parents never like you has little to do with your chosen profession. For someone to post repeated diatribes on a subject (including slandering a real-life friend publicly for what he has chosen to do as a business deal) and then, on the same forum, bump threads looking for seats to the exact venue that you are so passionately against certainly indicates to everyone that you have no character in reference to this crusade of yours.
Your lengthy posts have become hollow at best and make it clear that you are just upset that you did not get a ticket at what you perceive to be a fair mark-up. You need to grow-up and grow a pair and stop crying that you didn't get a ticket for $1150 or whatever you arbitrarily deem to be a fair price.
Your empty words are just as much an indicator of what is wrong with the poker playing professionals today as the actions of those scalping tickets. Grow a pair and have some conviction behind your words and then maybe your girlfriends' parents will see you as a man and not a child and have some level of approval of you. Or, better yet, maybe when you grow-up you will be strong enough not to care what your girlfriends' parents think of you at all.
As examples:
- Cheating on your spouse isn't against the law, but most think it's immoral
- Smoking around kids isn't against the law, but I would think most think it's immoral
- Some places it's against the law for gays/lesbians to get married, is that morally acceptable?
- If we view all laws as moral, then do we not object to what North Korea does to their people?
Obviously some things are extreme, but the point is laws and morals are not the same. I don't see how morals come into this discussion as to what is right and wrong in regards to scalping tickets, because everyone's opinion is different. There's not one view that is more correct than the other.
This is like religion, there's no point arguing over it, because everyone have different beliefs. Just accept that there's other views on the subject matter and move on.
Yes, I think so. If you are listing something on eBay for an event located in Ontario, you cannot sell over face value. However, if you change your location to USA or Que, then you are in the clear.
I have tried twitter, maybe a petition with some big names on the front page is a better use of my time and energy.
Thanks for your posts, you seem like an intelligent gent. If you ever have any tournament hands you'd like my opinion on, please dont hesitate send them to me.
____________
I can admit I've handled this poorly and obviously overreacted. Its something Im clearly passionate about. Passion is just as much a part of my personality as treating others how I want to be treated. That is why Im upset here, not because 'I didnt get a ticket for $1150 or whatever I arbitrarily deem to be a fair price.' By the way, congrats on the correct use of arbitrarily!
Just because I am against Fallsviews policy doesn't eliminate my desire to take advantage of a soft live poker tournament. If that means my words are 'empty,' 'hollow,' or 'I lack conviction' maybe GTA Poker is smarter than I give him credit for and Im the idiot here.
Regardless, I hope everyone has a great evening. I also hope to get a $1k seat at an acceptable price, but thats something to worry about another time
Cheers
true story
thrice
I hope you tid, just don't pretend you are on some moral high ground when you are EXACTLY like every other poker player playing this event
This is spot on. Similarly I've been kind of quiet since I'm sort of on the fence as to whether the people exploiting the system should be called out, since it IS mostly a fallsview issue afterall, but I do think it's at least mildly scummy to be scalping here, and I think it's definitely reasonable to expect some backlash if you're partaking in it. Although I wouldn't react the same way as Scotty myself, I think that he's relatively justified in being a bit upset if a friend was doing this, in the same way that I'd probably tell a friend to go fuck himself if he was trying to angle me somehow. Like if people want to sell 1.4:1 markup for tough online tournaments on 2p2 marketplace that's cool if you're fine with it yourself, but if my friend tries to sell me action for the Super Tuesday at 1.4:1 and he's serious he can suck a dick.
no
Not if you immediately spent the profits on hookers and blow, stimulating the local economy makes up for just about anything these days...
For the majority of players, this is probably a far higher ROI than they have playing in the tournament.
This is depressing, I was pretty excited to play these 'hometown' events
There's always next year . . . plan ahead.
With any luck the policy will have changed by then. I wont hold my breath though!
Cheers
Just in case, I could grab one when they go on sale later this year, and hold it for you. It would be no trouble . . . you cover gas and expenses for the trip there and back, no mark up for the ducat.
Its definitely worth considering. The biggest drawback would be when I busted first hand and was stuck at fallsview waiting for you to ship the tournament. Appreciate it Hahaha
Does Bramalea still have powerhouse softball teams?
In a small community of poker players its unfortunate that people are trying to make a dime off of each other. Truly a lot of players on this board have made 1000s from each other in discussing hands, getting better, etc, so really to charge a fellow forum member or someone you know personally is a little nitty imo.
I think most people can agree 200-300 isn't going to make or break them so I don't really see the point of doing it. The people who scalp usually are broke poker players (at fallsview) and that's the only way they know how to make money.
But to each their own.....
qft.