Floped Top Set...Max Value?
Hand couldn't have gone much better, happy with result but I still wonder if I jumped the gun by a street with a near perfect flop...
Set-up: at Aria, just joined $1-$3 table with $100, average stack is about $250 with 1 player 2 to my left about $700 deep and applying pressure.
After a few orbits, seemed Raises are to $10-$18 on average, except player on my immediate left who made it $40 pre-with kings, then letting us all know he will over-bet his big pairs to encourage only "real hands", with Mr. Competent Deepstack licking his lips waiting to flop 2 pair
Pick up QQ UTG and while I am counting my raise, UTG +1 jumps gun and throws in $3. I "whoah, whoah, whaoh him" and he snaps my raise to $12
4 other players call, button looks pretty intent on figuring me out.
Flop is gold, 7, 10, Q, (rainbow)
I check, UTG +1 makes it $25, Button slowly calls. I wait a few seconds, stack ones on top and move all in silently.
UTG +1 calls, button folds. I table set and he showw q-10 for as close to drawing dead as possible.
Turn adds a broadway card but by river no flushes completed.
Should I have flatted flop and shoved turn to try to keep button in?
Was my pre-flop raise too small for cash game? I hate raising too much with big pairs, don't want to do things differently than if I had a broadway hand or late position connectors or medium-small pairs.
Felt a bit vulnerable with that many callers, but easy to dump too. Playing short I know that that my shoves will be discounted too, so I can push with-out scaring anyone away- essentially raising $63 into $170 pot.
I kinda thought my line was a face-up play, put knew UTG +1 would stay in as he already showed he is willing to over commit and my stack wasn't big enough to make him fold. I feel like I could have gotten the $63 of button by check raising on turn instead as utg would have bet $40 at least leaving him only a few chips left to call on my shove...
Thoughts?
Set-up: at Aria, just joined $1-$3 table with $100, average stack is about $250 with 1 player 2 to my left about $700 deep and applying pressure.
After a few orbits, seemed Raises are to $10-$18 on average, except player on my immediate left who made it $40 pre-with kings, then letting us all know he will over-bet his big pairs to encourage only "real hands", with Mr. Competent Deepstack licking his lips waiting to flop 2 pair
Pick up QQ UTG and while I am counting my raise, UTG +1 jumps gun and throws in $3. I "whoah, whoah, whaoh him" and he snaps my raise to $12
4 other players call, button looks pretty intent on figuring me out.
Flop is gold, 7, 10, Q, (rainbow)
I check, UTG +1 makes it $25, Button slowly calls. I wait a few seconds, stack ones on top and move all in silently.
UTG +1 calls, button folds. I table set and he showw q-10 for as close to drawing dead as possible.
Turn adds a broadway card but by river no flushes completed.
Should I have flatted flop and shoved turn to try to keep button in?
Was my pre-flop raise too small for cash game? I hate raising too much with big pairs, don't want to do things differently than if I had a broadway hand or late position connectors or medium-small pairs.
Felt a bit vulnerable with that many callers, but easy to dump too. Playing short I know that that my shoves will be discounted too, so I can push with-out scaring anyone away- essentially raising $63 into $170 pot.
I kinda thought my line was a face-up play, put knew UTG +1 would stay in as he already showed he is willing to over commit and my stack wasn't big enough to make him fold. I feel like I could have gotten the $63 of button by check raising on turn instead as utg would have bet $40 at least leaving him only a few chips left to call on my shove...
Thoughts?
Comments
Regardless, your preflop raise size is a little big given your stack depth. If you are going to raise to $12...your opening range has to be relative tight. I realize the table dynamics for live games generally encourage bigger opens, but for this particular situation, I would probably lean closer to the lower end of the 'standard raise' with shallow depths and would opt to make it $10. You should start with a default opening size based on effective stack depths at the table.
Flop: Not sure who's calling from what position preflop. On this flop, with ~$60 pot and $88 behind...I would generally opt to lead small on the flop. You can get stacks in easily with any kind of bet. The flop is deceptive as it appears to be relatively dry, but with so many players in the pot, it's going to hit someone's range. A player with any two cards 7 or higher that is connected in some way, will have either a pair, open ender, two pair, gutshot+overs, or sets. Thus, I would lead for ~$20 and call off/shove to a raise on the flop, or shove on any turn if called.
As played...I think the shove on the flop is fine. No matter what you do you're going to look strong. You're just not deep enough. Besides, if you just flat on the flop....it might slow the action on the turn, and let someone get there for free or get away otherwise.
$10 is far too small.
Bet $17+
This.
Don't think it really mattered whether you shoved on flop or turn with such a short stack. Your so far ahead it wouldn't hurt to just call the flop bet. Doesn't matter what card comes on the turn you are shipping at that point anyways. Your biggest mistake was sitting down at a 1/3 table with 33BB and an average stack of $250.
With $60 in the pot pre-flop, I might have shoved pre-flop with all that dead money in the middle.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU DON'T SIT DOWN AT A CASH GAME WITH BELOW 80-100BB!!!! YOU WANT TO MAXIMIZE THESE SITUATIONS!!
GTA, help me out!!!
?? he was utg and opened, so dead money equals $4 in the blinds. Even though sitting with only $100 in 1-3 game isnt optimal its not horrible either. If you have 400 or so its prob better to sit with 100 and be able to take a beat or 2 so you can still play, then sit with it all take a beat then have nothing to do. Think you played it fine, once you check and it goes bet with a caller im gonna ship this short stack everytime.
NH
Based on the feedback, my question would be: if I was $200-$300 deep, (65-100BB), would you flat flop or bet out in a way to rep C-bet?
With 2 players still in hand, prob could have made $100-$200 more? UTG obv would have stacked off, but had $80 tops left after covering me. Button prob $220.
Mark
I raise probably to like $15-$16 or so, try and be standard with the table. If they will call $12, they will call $16.
The flop is relatively dry, you can either c/c, c/r or b/c.
Personally, I lead this flop. Last thing you want is this flop checked around end up losing value. No one would expect you to be that strong and you are getting it against q10 regardless.
Chances are, if you bet, q10 raises and the other player folds anyway. Only way you get more value then you got is by c/c. You are so short stacked that a c/r will give any bettor pot odds to call with almost any hand, but the risk is the flop gets checked around and you lose value.
I just lead. You were getting it in vs q10 and the other villain probably was going to be irrelevant anyway.