TT in the SB

trigs

would like to get some opinions on how you'd play this hand. depending on flop texture, how would you continue. i recently switched tables so don't really have any reads on villains. neither have done anything out of the ordinary yet. thoughts?

PokerStars Game #69668194177: Tournament #457919951, $2.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (25/50) - 2011/10/28 16:48:22 ET
Table '457919951 63' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: CO (2775 in chips)
Seat 2: Button (2260 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero (7175 in chips)
Seat 4: BB (5260 in chips)
Seat 5: UTG (3120 in chips)
Seat 6: UTG+1 (9610 in chips)
Seat 7: UTG+2 (3075 in chips)
Seat 8: HJ+1 (2600 in chips)
Seat 9: HJ (4685 in chips)
Hero: posts small blind 25
BB: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Tc Ts]
UTG: folds
UTG+1: folds
UTG+2: raises 150 to 200
HJ+1: folds
HJ: folds
CO: calls 200
Button: folds
Hero: ?

Milo

Aaahh . . . what the hell.

You are OOP but with a decent/not great hand.
You have no reads, but neither do they. Call or raise . . . depends on how comfortable you are with looking like a donk (I am very comfortable with this image).
If calling, bet out on any non-threatening board.
If raising, re-evaluate based on Villains response and/or the flop.

kwsteve

I'd call and then min bet no matter what hit the flop.

trigs

well i did call looking to bet out but a K hit so i check folded to the original raiser. looking back i think i would have liked to define the hand more with a raise preflop.

does that call-min bet flop work a lot? can't say i've ever considered doing that.

Unknown

Don't donk min bet flops EVER for the hell of it

Not sure what the point is of that, but it's horribad, and you should never ever do it.

Here OP, we are getting a good price to flat and set mine.

I'd call the c bet and hopefully check it down on the latter streets, hopefully we improve.

jdAA88

Agree with Chris Oliver except that I'd prob just check-fold like you did since the pot is multiway so his cbet into 3 ppl is stronger.

kwsteve

I don't know what you're talking about. People will be confused as to what you have so unless they hit the flop hard they usually fold. If they just call then check turn; they'll usually check and then you see the river for cheap, controlling the hand.

If at any time they start betting hard and you've hit nothing, then you can always fold, losing minimum.

If you just check the flop and he c-bets then you probably fold if there is overcards, even though he might not have hit anything either. You're in the dark.

Sorry, to me check-call is the donk move. To each their own.

Unknown

Hi!!!!

pre we need to decide if we are to 3bet or flat.....

If we 3bet and he 4bet shoves and we fold we have spent our life wasn't mid pairs by turning them into a bluff

If we 3bet/call for value we need him to be getting in worse hands and a worse range in general but its completely plausible and fine i think at this level....

But i do prefer to set mine....which, especially 3 way will almost always be to check fold any flop without a ten... alot of times I will fold an overpair like that....... for ex. 99 on 358....check calling oop is not a good idea is why....i would rather be the better with a cran juice bottle and empty peanuts instead of cards ;p

as for donking after flatting pre.....we are beging to play backwards.....when we bet and he calls we value owned ourself often vs a better hand......if we bet and he folds we gained zero value....we wasted a good hand....

if donking works like that then we want to do it with more bluff type hands rather than made hands with equity.....

as for raising early to define your hand and for info....if he shoves or 4 bets.....what do we know now? we put ourselves into a terrible hard spot ......

SET MINE MINE MINE

later on when you don't have to ask this question any more start slow playing back here and there....

thinking its likely btp and others will tell you just to get it in pre....

Unknown

Getting it in pre with 100+ beibers?? >:D

I like it

peteski

darbday wrote: »

Hi!!!!

pre we need to decide if we are to 3bet or flat.....

If we 3bet and he 4bet shoves and we fold we have spent our life wasn't mid pairs by turning them into a bluff

If we 3bet/call for value we need him to be getting in worse hands and a worse range in general but its completely plausible and fine i think at this level....

But i do prefer to set mine....which, especially 3 way will almost always be to check fold any flop without a ten... alot of times I will fold an overpair like that....... for ex. 99 on 358....check calling oop is not a good idea is why....i would rather be the better with a cran juice bottle and empty peanuts instead of cards ;p

as for donking after flatting pre.....we are beging to play backwards.....when we bet and he calls we value owned ourself often vs a better hand......if we bet and he folds we gained zero value....we wasted a good hand....

if donking works like that then we want to do it with more bluff type hands rather than made hands with equity.....

as for raising early to define your hand and for info....if he shoves or 4 bets.....what do we know now? we put ourselves into a terrible hard spot ......

SET MINE MINE MINE

later on when you don't have to ask this question any more start slow playing back here and there....

thinking its likely btp and others will tell you just to get it in pre....

I like your analysis preflop, but to my way of thinking what you're suggesting is too tight post, particularly if you flop an overpair. With the stacks you're up against why would you be against getting it in here? You're not only getting it in in jail. People play hands with nines or eights in them. People also go crazy with mid pocket pairs or even AK type hands on boards like 953 because they think you don't have any of it. For sure the guy doesn't have an overpair enough to check-fold. Sure, sometimes they're going to have the overpair, but, if you're fine getting it in pre, why would you be against getting in post with an overpair?

As for post with an overcard, that is tough OOP. I don't hate the donk bet because sometimes they'll call you light, but it is tough to play later streets. I think I would call at least one small to mid-size bet and then see what happens, but this is where you have to play poker and figure out what your opponent's bet means. Not easy, but I think check-folding one bet is a little on the tight side.

Unknown

peteski wrote: »

I like your analysis preflop, but to my way of thinking what you're suggesting is too tight post

agreed!!! pretty much down with all you wrote....

betrthanphil

Imo once we 3 bet we have to call the 4 bet shove, this early i will almost never 3 bet fold to a 4 bet. I prefer a call here and not gonna fold a K high board with 2 unders to just one cbet unless the cbet its retardly too big. like here pot is 650 if his cbet is 450 or more im folding. Key is to try to avoid playing big pots with mediocer hands post flop. But early here in a $2 game i might think 3 bet getting it in is ok. I just had a guy call my 4 bet shove pre in the nightly 162 with 99. I raised utg +1 and there was a flatter then he 3bet and i shoved kk he calls with 99. So dont think 3 bet shoving 1010 can be that bad here. More likely to flat against 1 opponent that a raise and a call. I think either are ok. but folding to cbets everytime an overcard comes up cant be profitable

trigs

thanks for all the comments guys

i think you guys are right that i should at least be floating the flop with only one over card. honestly, i just hate oop middle pairs. so many tough decisions to make throughout the hand. with no read on villains, it can be quite tough.

ryanghall

Definitely call pre. Next street?!??

trigs

ryanghall wrote: »

Definitely call pre. Next street?!??

flop was K94 rainbow.

ryanghall

OK, prob check, and?!??

Unknown

if we are playing mid-high PP's and folding to a single overcard, we need to rethink what we are doing.

ryanghall

Yeah, obviously. You don't have to fold to a bet. Look at sizing etc.

trigs

ryanghall wrote: »

OK, prob check, and?!??

hero checks, original raiser bets, CO folds, i fold.

i agree that's way too passive.