A new struggle
I've slowely been playing higher limits, and at least threading water ... up maybe 1BB/hour etc...
I sat down in a 15/30 game yesterday that was loose and really agressive. And by loose and by agressive i mean, you won't find games appraoching either of those requirements anywhere online. I understand that in theory i need to tighten up my starting hand requirements and generally that's what i did. If i was in a pot and lost it was either cause i got sucked out on at the end or because i overplayed a hand (AQ vs AK for example).
I understand that lots of issues will come into play, but this one specific hand was in my head. I wasn't sure what to do and out of paralysis i folded rather than play ... i'm wondering based on all the wonderful book systems would the following hand have been playable.
Me OTB (A3s)
Blinds post (10-15), Straddle (30), Super-Straddle (45), fold, raise (60), raise (75), call ... action to me
Now the first raise was from a really loose agressive player, plays great after the flop but will do absolutely everything to build a pot. Second raiser is also agressive but slightly selective, but with a pot in this spot could have anything from two painted cards, small pocket pair, etc... and wants to thin the field. Guy who cold calls has been getting frustrated by all the loose play, and has gotten away from his 'A' game and my guess is calling with some mid pocket pair.
So my decision is to put in 75 with the full knowledge that it's going to be capped meaning $90 pre-flop on a drawing hand. Guaranteed 4 other people will be in capped and the odds are with the nature of the game, at least one of the blinds.
I'm just trying to figure out did i pass up a perfectly playable hand considering the potential size of the pot, and the fact that if i made a flush i was guaranteed to get paid off, with a 7-800 pot.
I sat down in a 15/30 game yesterday that was loose and really agressive. And by loose and by agressive i mean, you won't find games appraoching either of those requirements anywhere online. I understand that in theory i need to tighten up my starting hand requirements and generally that's what i did. If i was in a pot and lost it was either cause i got sucked out on at the end or because i overplayed a hand (AQ vs AK for example).
I understand that lots of issues will come into play, but this one specific hand was in my head. I wasn't sure what to do and out of paralysis i folded rather than play ... i'm wondering based on all the wonderful book systems would the following hand have been playable.
Me OTB (A3s)
Blinds post (10-15), Straddle (30), Super-Straddle (45), fold, raise (60), raise (75), call ... action to me
Now the first raise was from a really loose agressive player, plays great after the flop but will do absolutely everything to build a pot. Second raiser is also agressive but slightly selective, but with a pot in this spot could have anything from two painted cards, small pocket pair, etc... and wants to thin the field. Guy who cold calls has been getting frustrated by all the loose play, and has gotten away from his 'A' game and my guess is calling with some mid pocket pair.
So my decision is to put in 75 with the full knowledge that it's going to be capped meaning $90 pre-flop on a drawing hand. Guaranteed 4 other people will be in capped and the odds are with the nature of the game, at least one of the blinds.
I'm just trying to figure out did i pass up a perfectly playable hand considering the potential size of the pot, and the fact that if i made a flush i was guaranteed to get paid off, with a 7-800 pot.
Comments
Cheers
Magi
I believe the odds of hitting a flush with suited cards in your hand are 6%. Correct me if I'm wrong cause I'd like to know! You would be drawing to the nut flush...
You also have a chance for the wheel straight but not the nut straight. Top card would not take it and top pair is unlikely due to the kicker.
It seems like a very bad bet. I'd play it for 1 bet (maybe...) but not 4.
Your kicker sucks... Hitting your ace in a crazy multiway pot could get you into big trouble.
Ok, so I had to laugh AND run the numbers. Against two midling pocket pairs and two random hands A3s is actually a 22% favourite to win the hand. So, could very well be pot odds, and THINK of the implied odds. It's a huge money maker. I think I change my mind. Ok, I don't and still stand by my original suggestion that A3s is a clear fold in this situation. But, for those who would like to play the hand, you could very well be getting pot odds AND good implied odds.
Cheers
Magi
I'll put it this way i knew my hands weren't getting great action (from people who actually notice) because it was guaranteed that if i was in the pot, they were likely playing from behind. This meant the only hands where i was going to get paid off huge was on drawing hands, but generally i wasn't willing to pay the price for them.
I'm obviously dwelling on the A3s because the hand hit the draw on the flop, plus a straight draw on the turn and made the nut flush on the river. Magi, kind of touched on it, could the implied odds on such an agressive game where the pots are really getting built ... give me odds to play since i am drawing to the nuts.
Remember that Murphy's Law implies that if you had played, the draws wouldn't have hit.
With two raisers in the pot, you need to consider the possibility that one of them is on A-broadway. When you run the numbers for your hand against a decent pair (let's say T's), AQo, and two average hands (49o and J9o), your odds drop to about 16%. In fact, even J9o is a favourite over you in this situation.
Lee Jones values Axs very highly in his low limit book. This isn't because this is a great hand, though, it's because this is a very simple hand to play. Against 2 raisers, I definitely like the fold here.
Implied odds are exactly the reason you cannot play an "implied odds" hand in the situation you mentioned. Namely, your implied odds are cut down incredibly in the face of insane pre-flop jamming with straddle(s).
Implied odds hands like A3s and 22 would like to see the flop cheaply since they can build big hands, but do so very infrequently. They should not be played in the hand (and type of game) you described from any position.
My starting hand requirements for the hand you mentioned would be AA-JJ, AKs, AKo, with TT-99 and AQs being maybes. (And I would raise with all of these hands.)
ScottyZ