honest doubts about a live cardroom
The cardroom at Brantford Charity Casino in Brantford, Ontario offers 2/5 limit holdem. I've played there from time to time. My trip there today left a bad taste in my mouth.
There were two guys sitting side by side at the far end of the table who obviously knew each other. In several hours they were never in a hand together. When one played, the other one folded. Between them they rivered six winning gutshots when they had raised preflop with hands such as K8 offsuit and kept raising on the flop with nothing better than a threep-straight. They knocked out five other players in three hours and taunted three of them.
One of them went on dinner break and the other guy suddenly started losing. When the dinner guy returned, his buddy said the dinner break "cost me $100." I laughed and remarked loudly to the dealer that I wished I had a tape recorder to record that conversation because "what better evidence do you need?" The dealer said nothing, but when she looked at me I could see the fear in her eyes.
I made a small profit by playing tighter than a clydesdale's anus in winter. Others weren't so lucky. Now, it's obvious those two were cheating, but the dealer's reaction to my joking comment suggests to me that they might be shills. I've heard rumours of collusion at brantford from other regulars, but I've never heard anything that would impugn the honesty of the cardroom itself. I don't WANT to believe that Brantford is dishonest but find myself tending in that direction.
As a closing comment, whenever frustrated newbies have raged to me that online poker is rigged, I've had a simple reply for them: go play live in a public cardroom, because it's extremely unlikely that a public cardroom would be rigged. Now I have to wonder whether it wasn't naive of me to think so.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
There were two guys sitting side by side at the far end of the table who obviously knew each other. In several hours they were never in a hand together. When one played, the other one folded. Between them they rivered six winning gutshots when they had raised preflop with hands such as K8 offsuit and kept raising on the flop with nothing better than a threep-straight. They knocked out five other players in three hours and taunted three of them.
One of them went on dinner break and the other guy suddenly started losing. When the dinner guy returned, his buddy said the dinner break "cost me $100." I laughed and remarked loudly to the dealer that I wished I had a tape recorder to record that conversation because "what better evidence do you need?" The dealer said nothing, but when she looked at me I could see the fear in her eyes.
I made a small profit by playing tighter than a clydesdale's anus in winter. Others weren't so lucky. Now, it's obvious those two were cheating, but the dealer's reaction to my joking comment suggests to me that they might be shills. I've heard rumours of collusion at brantford from other regulars, but I've never heard anything that would impugn the honesty of the cardroom itself. I don't WANT to believe that Brantford is dishonest but find myself tending in that direction.
As a closing comment, whenever frustrated newbies have raged to me that online poker is rigged, I've had a simple reply for them: go play live in a public cardroom, because it's extremely unlikely that a public cardroom would be rigged. Now I have to wonder whether it wasn't naive of me to think so.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Comments
In closing, they may or may not have been cheating. You can find cheats at every cardroom. This does not mean the cardroom is "rigged".
You can get up! Then what have you lost, hit a different table, call the floor make it a big deal, might get a seat change to one of them, or really piss them off and they go.
Is it ethical to sit with people you know?? of course not, but it still happens, go to a home game!! cheating? not really but make friends play in pots with others and not them, this is not a judgement im just saying....thats kinda everywhere!!! define rigged, easy idea to look at it, when I head to the casino I am NOT THERE TO MAKE FRIENDS IM THERE TO CRUSH THEM!!!
that should about clear it up
Wrong. There is nothing wrong with sitting with people you know. So long as there is no collusion or soft playing. When moose and I go to BCC, I take great pleasure in sucking out on him.
I am there (and so is he) to win money. Who it comes from does not matter.
In summary, as Hobbes says, you will find cheating of some sort in every card room. It's very difficult to prove just be aware. I'm quite sure they aren't "shills" as you call it but quite probably are regs as were likely the guys who's money they took.
This is especially true when we drive up together and whoever wins the most (or loses the least) usually pays for the wendy's drive thru that sits conveniently across from BCC.
As for ethical, I might have used the wrong word with it HA...comp is completely right, 2/5 isnt gambling ONLY but it takes little skill to be in the black with it!
- fail.
- so obv they were communicating their cards to each other so that they knew all four of their outs were live.
So laughable.
i had a buddy who wanted me to lick my lips if i had ak....? like what is that gonna accomplish....
That's not what we said. We said that it happens.
I tried to learn how to spot all kinds of cheating when I was getting my dealers license, and I don't see any cheating from your description.
So you somehow think that these two NON-colluding players were cheaters, AND that the rotating dealers were also cheating??
Is it worth the risk to cheat at a 2/5?
Can you spell out how they were cheating for those of us who don't understand your post?
There's almost never a 50/100 table going at Brantford. Yesterday about half of the tables were closed thanks to low attendance. There was one 20/40 table running, and it is indeed a wonder that cheaters wouldn't concentrate on that.
As for spelling things out, I don't need to, because I've put the matter in the hands of OLG staff, and, hopefully, they'll come up with their own conclusions based on reliable evidence and expertise. If I hear about it from them I'll let you know.
I am all for being vigilant and making sure you are not taken advantage of at the poker table. Some of the skepticism is coming from a couple of things:
1. The stakes are way to low to make any sort of cheating worthwhile.
2. The dealers rotate, making a dealer being part of any scamm only viable for 20-30min at a time.
3. Colluders usually play hands together, so they can help build a pot, give each other signals as to what they have, etc...
In the past, when I suspected cheating, it would put me on a kind of tilt because I would be so busy watching for it I wasn't playing my game. It was kind of distracting like reading the gibberish in chat boxes in online poker.
Now when I feel something strange is going on I just change tables.