An online tournament, you start with 1500 in chips and you're in the big blind. First hand of the tournament and your dealt Ad Kd. Someone before you goes all in. What would you do?
Generally I don't play the first hand of a tournament for this exact reason (and some superstition). You may have the lead against two random cards but if they have any pair you are almost taking a coin flip for all your chips. I fold but I'm also a chicken this early in a tournament.
I'd be interested to here what the more experienced players have to say.
An online tournament, you start with 1500 in chips and you're in the big blind. First hand of the tournament and your dealt Ad Kd. Someone before you goes all in. What would you do?
for me, if it's 1 of those cheap ass freerolls with over 6000 to 10000 players i'll just push it all in
Well, the only part of this hand that bothers me is the online part
I had nearly the same situation in a live MTT recently $125 buy in. First hand I get dealt AQ suited in LP with 2 on my left. All fold around to me, I raise 3xBB, 1 more fold, dealer shoves all in.... instantly tries to stare me down. I think he's a theif and call. Flips K5os and I take it down with A high.
Online.... cheap entry, I would call. $100 + entry, I would be writing the same post you are! Hope it worked out for you.
If this is a rebuy tournament I call
No rebuy I fold
At this early stage of a freeze out there is no need to call off all of your chips with AK preflop. There is a very good chance that your opponent has a PP and even if it is 22 he is still the fav over AK. Fold and wait for a better spot to put your chips in.
Fold! For someone to go all in on the first hand of the tourney pre flop my quess is that you would have a pretty good shot at getting a lot of his money later on.
Fold for sure. That has to be about one of the dumbest bets the guy can make. Chances are the guy is a very poor player and you will have a better shot at him before it is all done. I'd guess at best you would have been in a coin toss where you'd have to hit to win. Why risk it now? Wait until you've got some premium pocket pairs.
You might want to comment that he must have had a very good hand to risk all his chips to make 30 chips. It is a subtle way of calling the guy an idiot. Problem is, the guy is probably too stupid to realize you are slagging him.
Thanks for your replies. I'll fill in a few more details and what happened. It was a freeroll tourny with no rebuy. Well I called and someone else called as well. The original all-iner (sp?) turns up JJ and a J comes on the flop and me and the other caller are gone. I am fairly new to poker especially NL so I find every time I play I learn a few more things. All your comments will help me look a little bit outside the box, or just not playing my cards. Thanks again.
That has to be about one of the dumbest bets the guy can make.
Before someone gets all up in my face about how smart it turned out to be, let me explain. He only needs to be 100 at most to pick up the blinds. So he's really begging for someone to call him. What kind of hands should call him? Aces, maybe kings? If you have a history on the guy, maybe queens. If any of these hands call him, he might just as well be betting with 72o cause he's going to need a miracle to win the hand.
Now, since it's a freeroll, a lot of guys play it pretty loose at the start and try to build up a big stack. I guess some guys do that in a rebuy as well. He got lucky this time and tripled up. I don't have much experience with freerolls and rebuys but I don't like coin flip bets when I'm under no fear of the blinds eating up my stack.
Would a more experienced player call an all-in with AKs in this situation? More likely they would bet all-in with AKs. I leave it up to the others to comment on this.
The problem with those damn freerols alot of guys go all in of the first hand preflop, so i usually fold just cuz there are almost always atleast one more caller gonna come to his allin in those freerols. If you are under no pressure why risk it even if he is stealing he is stealing 75 in chips let him have it
Would a more experienced player call an all-in with AKs in this situation? More likely they would bet all-in with AKs. I leave it up to the others to comment on this.
Your right.....an experienced player will not CALL an all-in with this hand, unless he has reason to beleive he's best. If hes going against a short stack, or against a maniac he might call.... but an experienced player also will not PUSH all-in with this hand unless he is short stacked or is almost certain that he will not get called. The only reason that I would Call in this situation is because its a freeroll and I have nothing to lose and I can double up quickly or be done.
Many times I limp with AK and see what the flop brings if I dont hit I check and fold because I'm now a huge dog to a pair of 2's. This works well for me in ring games, if I hit an ace or king sometimes I get action from a weak kicker.
Your right.....an experienced player will not CALL an all-in with this hand, unless he has reason to beleive he's best. If hes going against a short stack, or against a maniac he might call....
I think the "all-in player might be a maniac" angle was the essence of the OP, and hasn't really been carefully addressed yet.
Also, as was revealed later in the thread, there are players left to act after the AKs. In this case, I probably wouldn't call. After all, there could be other maniacs left to act behind me.
If the AKs is closing the betting, this is a whole different story. In a a LL tournament, there is some chance that the all-in player is a maniac and has anything from a coin flipper versus your AKs to complete rags to AA.
There is also a chance that this is a savy player who is trying an interesting play in a LL tourney with AA, or possibly KK. I have pushed all-in many times in LL SNG's with AA as a massive overbet in the very early stages, and have gotten called more than you might expect.
I even got berated one time for making this play. I just played dumb and told him something like "thanks for the advice" instead of suggesting that he might have made a poor call with his KJo. In addition to being an amusing episode, to me it really drove home the idea of how overly straightforward poker play confuses a lot of opponents.
Getting back to AKs, deciding whether or not to call depends on your assessment of the various cases (i.e. maniac or fancy AA play?), and also of your tournament goals. For a freeroll tournament, the payout is generally incredibly top-heavy. That is, very few spots (relative to the number of entrants) pay out any kind of significant prize.
Add to this the greatly increased chances that your opponent in a freeroll is a maniac rather than an expert player making a unique AA play, I'd favour calling here with the AKs if I was closing the betting. In fact, because of the top-heavy payout structure, I'd taking a lot of micro-EV (and possibly slight EV dog) high variance chances in the tournament as a whole. Why not get started? :cool:
As for the the same situation with AKs except not closing the betting, this becomes a little more tricky. As I mentioned already, I'd favour folding, mostly because a freeroll player left to act behind me with a marginal hand that gives me trouble (say, 22) might end up getting "big pot envy" and randomly enter the fray.
There is also a chance that this is a savy player who is trying an interesting play in a LL tourney with AA, or possibly KK. I have pushed all-in many times in LL SNG's with AA as a massive overbet in the very early stages, and have gotten called more than you might expect.
I was thinking about exploring this angle. A masterful player (such as yourself) could try this in hopes a few less masterful opponents would call and set himself up with a nice chip count to start the tourney.
Of course, there's the chance no one will call. Or maybe you make the standard raise and get 1 caller. I guess you have to weigh this against the risk of slowplaying and being outdrawn or scared out by a bad looking flop, turn or river. It's all about getting the most out of your hand for the least risk to me. As far as freerolls or rebuys go, people are willing to accept a bit more risk for a far better chance of a good finish, so going all-in with a good hand and even calling with a decent hand are not unusual decisions.
Comments
I'd be interested to here what the more experienced players have to say.
i'll just push it all in
I had nearly the same situation in a live MTT recently $125 buy in. First hand I get dealt AQ suited in LP with 2 on my left. All fold around to me, I raise 3xBB, 1 more fold, dealer shoves all in.... instantly tries to stare me down. I think he's a theif and call. Flips K5os and I take it down with A high.
Online.... cheap entry, I would call. $100 + entry, I would be writing the same post you are! Hope it worked out for you.
No rebuy I fold
At this early stage of a freeze out there is no need to call off all of your chips with AK preflop. There is a very good chance that your opponent has a PP and even if it is 22 he is still the fav over AK. Fold and wait for a better spot to put your chips in.
You might want to comment that he must have had a very good hand to risk all his chips to make 30 chips. It is a subtle way of calling the guy an idiot. Problem is, the guy is probably too stupid to realize you are slagging him.
Now, since it's a freeroll, a lot of guys play it pretty loose at the start and try to build up a big stack. I guess some guys do that in a rebuy as well. He got lucky this time and tripled up. I don't have much experience with freerolls and rebuys but I don't like coin flip bets when I'm under no fear of the blinds eating up my stack.
Would a more experienced player call an all-in with AKs in this situation? More likely they would bet all-in with AKs. I leave it up to the others to comment on this.
Your right.....an experienced player will not CALL an all-in with this hand, unless he has reason to beleive he's best. If hes going against a short stack, or against a maniac he might call.... but an experienced player also will not PUSH all-in with this hand unless he is short stacked or is almost certain that he will not get called. The only reason that I would Call in this situation is because its a freeroll and I have nothing to lose and I can double up quickly or be done.
Many times I limp with AK and see what the flop brings if I dont hit I check and fold because I'm now a huge dog to a pair of 2's. This works well for me in ring games, if I hit an ace or king sometimes I get action from a weak kicker.
Wader
I think the "all-in player might be a maniac" angle was the essence of the OP, and hasn't really been carefully addressed yet.
Also, as was revealed later in the thread, there are players left to act after the AKs. In this case, I probably wouldn't call. After all, there could be other maniacs left to act behind me.
If the AKs is closing the betting, this is a whole different story. In a a LL tournament, there is some chance that the all-in player is a maniac and has anything from a coin flipper versus your AKs to complete rags to AA.
There is also a chance that this is a savy player who is trying an interesting play in a LL tourney with AA, or possibly KK. I have pushed all-in many times in LL SNG's with AA as a massive overbet in the very early stages, and have gotten called more than you might expect.
I even got berated one time for making this play. I just played dumb and told him something like "thanks for the advice" instead of suggesting that he might have made a poor call with his KJo. In addition to being an amusing episode, to me it really drove home the idea of how overly straightforward poker play confuses a lot of opponents.
Getting back to AKs, deciding whether or not to call depends on your assessment of the various cases (i.e. maniac or fancy AA play?), and also of your tournament goals. For a freeroll tournament, the payout is generally incredibly top-heavy. That is, very few spots (relative to the number of entrants) pay out any kind of significant prize.
Add to this the greatly increased chances that your opponent in a freeroll is a maniac rather than an expert player making a unique AA play, I'd favour calling here with the AKs if I was closing the betting. In fact, because of the top-heavy payout structure, I'd taking a lot of micro-EV (and possibly slight EV dog) high variance chances in the tournament as a whole. Why not get started? :cool:
As for the the same situation with AKs except not closing the betting, this becomes a little more tricky. As I mentioned already, I'd favour folding, mostly because a freeroll player left to act behind me with a marginal hand that gives me trouble (say, 22) might end up getting "big pot envy" and randomly enter the fray.
ScottyZ
Of course, there's the chance no one will call. Or maybe you make the standard raise and get 1 caller. I guess you have to weigh this against the risk of slowplaying and being outdrawn or scared out by a bad looking flop, turn or river. It's all about getting the most out of your hand for the least risk to me. As far as freerolls or rebuys go, people are willing to accept a bit more risk for a far better chance of a good finish, so going all-in with a good hand and even calling with a decent hand are not unusual decisions.
No disrespect meant to Stephen.