turned the nuts

Richard~Richard~
in MTT Strategy
I messed up pretty big by not checking the turn here, right? the more I think about it the more I'm realizing this might be a pretty big miss.

What do you guys think? Big mistake or small mistake?

PokerStars Game #45179425407: Tournament #315010201, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2010/06/07 12:15:58 CET [2010/06/07 6:15:58 ET]
Table '315010201 70' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: JDENNIS310 (250 in chips)
Seat 2: IRichardI (2720 in chips)
Seat 3: tixeros87 (4575 in chips)
Seat 4: fish=pez123 (4650 in chips)
Seat 5: alefeb (925 in chips)
Seat 6: IMS DURNK (8580 in chips)
Seat 7: PINGCHFC (3400 in chips)
Seat 8: Cognosco (3050 in chips)
Seat 9: madalin93 (11201 in chips)
JDENNIS310: posts small blind 50
IRichardI: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IRichardI [:qc :jd]
tixeros87: folds
fish=pez123: raises 100 to 200
alefeb: calls 200
IMS DURNK: folds
PINGCHFC: folds
Cognosco: folds
madalin93: calls 200
JDENNIS310: raises 50 to 250 and is all-in
IRichardI: calls 150
fish=pez123: calls 50
alefeb: calls 50
madalin93: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [:qs :qh 9d]
IRichardI: bets 800
fish=pez123: calls 800
alefeb: calls 675 and is all-in
madalin93: calls 800
*** TURN *** [:qs :qh :9d] [:9h]
IRichardI: bets 1670 and is all-in
fish=pez123: folds
madalin93: folds
Uncalled bet (1670) returned to IRichardI
*** RIVER *** [:qs :qh :9d :9h] [:7c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
IRichardI: shows [:qc :jd] (a full house, Queens full of Nines)
IRichardI collected 375 from side pot-2
alefeb: shows [:8d :9s] (a full house, Nines full of Queens)
IRichardI collected 2700 from side pot-1
JDENNIS310: shows [:4s :3s] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
IRichardI collected 1250 from main pot
alefeb re-buys and receives 3000 chips for $10.00
JDENNIS310 re-buys and receives 3000 chips for $10.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4325 Main pot 1250. Side pot-1 2700. Side pot-2 375. | Rake 0
Board [Qs Qh 9d 9h 7c]
Seat 1: JDENNIS310 (small blind) showed [4s 3s] and lost with two pair, Queens and Nines
Seat 2: IRichardI (big blind) showed [Qc Jd] and won (4325) with a full house, Queens full of Nines
Seat 3: tixeros87 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: fish=pez123 folded on the Turn
Seat 5: alefeb showed [8d 9s] and lost with a full house, Nines full of Queens
Seat 6: IMS DURNK folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: PINGCHFC folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Cognosco folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: madalin93 (button) folded on the Turn

Comments

  • HammerDadHammerDad
    Well, you turned the 2nd nuts, but anyway.

    Not a horrible play, but are you betting for value or scared? IMO, I may have checked that turn and hope one of the other players catch up a little and extract more value.

    You have such a huge hand there to bet so much that you scare away value.
  • DennisGDennisG
    Well, we are NEVER scared of pocket nines here, so we aren't betting because we are scared..

    That being said, with it being a rebuy, and we don't have a betting line established that we are following, I definitely like to check here and hope one of these other clowns makes a move to push us off when they hit a card on the river...or with any luck, have the 9. With it being a 5 dollar rebuy, you may get some callers anyway..but why chance scaring them off, typically the fish here will bet for you if they have any resemblance of a hand..."ooh look, I have red cards!"
  • Richard~Richard~
    Well I'm obviously not scared ^^'

    My line of though on the turn was

    "ok, you guys called me on the flop, there's plenty of chips in the pot, I don't have plenty of chips. Therefore you guys are probably calling me again"

    I didn't realize my mistake until after they both folded, and then I was kicking myself for quite some time for being too hasty
  • jdAA88jdAA88
    Agree with Dennis
  • HammerDadHammerDad
    My point about betting scared is not so much that we are scared of people catching up, as it is unlikely, but betting because we are scared that we not get full value on a later street.

    IMO a check on the turn is fine as it opens up the door for someone to bluff the river giving you a few extra chips. As much as no one with a draw is going to pay off any bet on the river and should probably fold to any bet on the river even if they spike their ace (but this a rebuy, so who knows).

    Or you could bet like 100 and hope someone reads it as weak and goes all spastic on you.
  • Richard~Richard~
    I think everyone agreed fram the start that checking the turn is optimal here. The question was how big a mistake is it to bet the turn?
  • syphilaidssyphilaids
    honestly, you can go for a c/r here but if they're drawing its doubtful any of them are putting money into the pot. Betting here isn't that bad but I'd do a ridiculous bet something like 400 and hope for a raise behind, or a call with undercards etc.
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Richard~ wrote: »
    I think everyone agreed fram the start that checking the turn is optimal here. The question was how big a mistake is it to bet the turn?

    Not very big (checking is optimal tho).

    The only time you make any extra monies by checking is bluffcatching, which happens not very often unless you're at a table full of retards.

    So is checking best, sure. Is it a big deal, not likely.
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    syphilaids wrote: »
    honestly, you can go for a c/r here but if they're drawing its doubtful any of them are putting money into the pot. Betting here isn't that bad but I'd do a ridiculous bet something like 400 and hope for a raise behind, or a call with undercards etc.

    I like the absolute min bet in this spot, then bomb river.
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    DennisG wrote: »
    Well, we are NEVER scared of pocket nines here, so we aren't betting because we are scared..

    That being said, with it being a rebuy, and we don't have a betting line established that we are following, I definitely like to check here and hope one of these other clowns makes a move to push us off when they hit a card on the river...or with any luck, have the 9. With it being a 5 dollar rebuy, you may get some callers anyway..but why chance scaring them off, typically the fish here will bet for you if they have any resemblance of a hand..."ooh look, I have red cards!"

    Agree with dennis here, with anyluck one of the others have J10 and river a str8 then you get more chips. Once you bet the turn all you gonna get called by is someone with a Q or 9. if your real lucky maybe 10 10 but in a rebuy I dont see someone playing 10 10 so weak. So I really see no reason at all to bet the turn, as many times you arent gonna get a call
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