When the flop sucks

QuinnerQuinner
in No Limit / Pot Limit Holdem
Heres a hand from 25NL where I shipped it good.

PokerStars Game #36355379502: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2009/12/07 1:33:59 ET
Table 'Orsilocus' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: PiChi60 ($16.45 in chips)
Seat 2: Orlangoor ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: Quinner777 ($24.55 in chips)
Seat 4: XaviousPS ($15.50 in chips)
Seat 5: AAPollyAA ($19.75 in chips)
Seat 6: Nathan_S1985 ($39.45 in chips)
AAPollyAA: posts small blind $0.10
Nathan_S1985: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Quinner777 [Ah As]
PiChi60: folds
Orlangoor: folds
Quinner777: raises $0.50 to $0.75
XaviousPS: calls $0.75
AAPollyAA: folds
Nathan_S1985: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [8d 9s 6c]
Nathan_S1985: checks
Quinner777: bets $1.75
XaviousPS: raises $1.75 to $3.50
Nathan_S1985: folds
Quinner777: raises $20.30 to $23.80 and is all-in
XaviousPS: calls $11.25 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($9.05) returned to Quinner777
*** TURN *** [8d 9s 6c] [Js]
*** RIVER *** [8d 9s 6c Js] [9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Quinner777: shows [Ah As] (two pair, Aces and Nines)
XaviousPS: shows [7c Tc] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
XaviousPS collected $30.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $31.85 | Rake $1.55
Board [8d 9s 6c Js 9c]
Seat 1: PiChi60 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Orlangoor folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Quinner777 showed [Ah As] and lost with two pair, Aces and Nines
Seat 4: XaviousPS (button) showed [7c Tc] and won ($30.30) with a straight, Seven to Jack
Seat 5: AAPollyAA (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Nathan_S1985 (big blind) folded on the Flop

The thinking at the time was his re-raising range is very wide here considering all the hands that he could potentially do it with. 87 97 67,77, any hand probably with an 8 or a 9 in it. However problem is his range also includes, 57, 710, 98, 96, 86, 66, 99, 88.

My thinking in the future will be cbet flop, fold to 3bet. Exploitable? Yes but its pretty rare im going to be c-betting this flop anyway. Fact is I only do it when I have some sort of made hand on the flop and its mainly to gain information from my opponents. I made a mistake here by re-raising all in. I should have just folded. Got a bit of OMG ACES on the brain....whoops.

Thoughts?

Comments

  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    You probably could have found out you were behind for cheaper...

    Pot's $1.50 pre-flop, on the flop if you bet say, $1, he goes to $3, you go to maybe $8, then he pushes, you can get away.

    Mark
  • JohnnieHJohnnieH
    DrTyore wrote: »
    You probably could have found out you were behind for cheaper...

    Pot's $1.50 pre-flop, on the flop if you bet say, $1, he goes to $3, you go to maybe $8, then he pushes, you can get away.

    Mark

    Villain only had $11.25 back, so folding after re-popping to $8 is silly.

    Better to call the raise, and re-assess the turn. In this case, the Jack might have saved you some money.
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    my cat's breath smells like cat food
  • Flint BonesFlint Bones
    GTA Poker wrote: »
    my cat's breath smells like cat food

    Do you like to do stuff?
  • UnknownUnknown
    to me a bigger bet preflop will tell your opponents you have a big pair or a big ace. when you make you post flop play and your oppenent plays back at you ...you have to ask yourself why? its not because he has a pair or nothing which is what you can beat. this hand would be hard if you made a set but not with just a high pair. he knows you are paired you made it obvious. if you find hes trying to bluff you off alot or semi bluffing his draws then you can catch him later. those are mine thoughts.
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    Raise more preflop please.
  • actyperactyper
    I'd play it the same way. My preflop is normally 3.5x but lack of a pot button on stars is probably why you do 3x here.

    Tyore, pot is $2.35

    Johnnie, he's got position on you. Calling his min raise would just give him a very cheap draw which is most likely his holding on that flop.
  • KristyKristy
    Ode to a min-raise:

    Min-raise, Min-raise
    Wherefore art though min-raise?
    "Deny" thine father..but a trap by any other name would smell thusly sweet.
    If you be mad, be gone: if you have reason, be brief.
  • T8urmoneyT8urmoney
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    Raise more preflop please.

    If you are unable to fold AA post-flop, this^......
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Dont mean to derail, but that is actually a pretty good flop for aces. It was the action that sucked.

    /thread title rant.

    In before I +1 raising more pre.
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    Raise more preflop please.

    +1...
  • MiloMilo
    Kristy_Sea wrote: »
    Ode to a min-raise:

    Min-raise, Min-raise
    Wherefore art though min-raise?
    "Deny" thine father..but a trap by any other name would smell thusly sweet.
    If you be mad, be gone: if you have reason, be brief.

    I'm actually somewhat aroused by this . . .
  • QuinnerQuinner
    Really? I hate this flop for aces, I'd rather see one big card two little cards please and thank you. As I said theres just too many hands I could see him re-raising with here, lots of them are draws, and lots of them are already beating me. On a different flop say, as mentioned before, he can really only have a set (rare) two pair (rare) or lots of different cards that can pay me off that are definite second best hands and unlikely to improve to monster hands like straights or flushes. I also hate changing up my pf raise, if I'm in the CO I'm raising a ton of hands more than in UTG or UTG+1, therefore I'd rather keep my raises to 3X in the CO. If I've been doing that all session and suddenly change it to 3.5X or 4X I just feel that that would be giving out uneccessary free information. Any good player is just going to take advantage of the fact knowing the best I can have on that flop is AA if I suddenly change my pf raise and as he is in position, I just get dominated.

    That being said I'm not a consistent winner at 25NL yet, so I'm obviously doing something wrong. I just really feel that in the future I can just get away from this hand and wait for a better flop texture to take this to showdown.
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    He's only 60bb deep preflop, next hand.
  • KristyKristy
    Milo wrote: »
    I'm actually somewhat aroused by this . . .

    Yay love!:h:

    ..I was beginning to wonder if Shakespearian poker advice was going to far
  • syphilaidssyphilaids
    GTA Poker wrote: »
    He's only 60bb deep preflop, next hand.
    +1

    If he was deeper it'd be easier to get away. The only options I see are fold to his min-raise or ship.
    it sucks when you run into a set or a straight here, but given his stack size i'd be willing to take the gamble. I'd say most of the time you're up against a combo draw like 78 etc. and you can flip a coin for his low stack.
    I think EV here will be +
  • JH1JH1
    I'm pretty much never folding QQ+ overpairs to a 60bb fish with an SPR of 5. There's way more combos of pair+draw or K9,Q9,etc, TT,JJ,QQ (possibly bare 7x OESDs too) that he'll also stack than sets and straights. Plus we still have 20% equity against 2 pair.

    nh, we have the required equity to get it in here. We're getting 1.7:1 on a shove which means we only have to win 37% of the time. It's not just a matter if we're ahead or not this time, but we basically have to be behind 63%+ of the time to not show a profit. Even if it's close, it's a very small mistake getting that price against his range worst case scenario.
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