Pokerstars Ring Games
I honestly can't figure it out.
If i were to break down play at various sites into Limit Ring, NL Ring, Tournament and SNG where i've had a decent amount of play... my estimation is that i'm either a breakeven (or close to), or winner in most categories at most sites.
The one glaring exception. Limit Ring games at pokerstars at various limits (pennies upto 5/10). I just can't seem to win at them. I understand when i started my play was plain piss poor. My play has imporved but at pokerstars if i'm playing limit, honestly my deposits feel more like donations.
If i were to break down play at various sites into Limit Ring, NL Ring, Tournament and SNG where i've had a decent amount of play... my estimation is that i'm either a breakeven (or close to), or winner in most categories at most sites.
The one glaring exception. Limit Ring games at pokerstars at various limits (pennies upto 5/10). I just can't seem to win at them. I understand when i started my play was plain piss poor. My play has imporved but at pokerstars if i'm playing limit, honestly my deposits feel more like donations.
Comments
ScottyZ
Usually I just stick to the 11 and 22 dollar sngs, though.
I got killed in two sessions of $1/$2 on Stars, experiencing some bad beats in the process. But I can dominate the $3/$6 on other sites without much trouble.
I've played you at microbe's. You don't exactly convey the tightest image.
I understand you play much tighter online. That is probably a good thing. Bluffing generally doesn't work well at low limits.
I haven't played the tables at PokerStars yet. I signed up to play the pokerforum.ca tourneys and haven't ventured past that yet. I've played a lot of small stakes on Pacific. There seems to be huge variance there but the tables are definitely beatable. Can the play there be that much different?
Have you read Miller/Sklansky/Malmuth's Small Stakes Hold'Em book? It deviates a bit from Sklansky's standard style, which is geared more for higher stakes and tighter style of Hold'Em. It gives a lot of pointers on how to maximize your winnings on small stakes tables. I believe it has helped me a lot.
At a small 1/2 home game i can bet in the dark, play a hand in the dark, check the nuts till the end etc... because i'm doing it as part of a social experience.
my play online isn't like that, unless i'm playing a SNG with the intention of being a bully, in which case i'm a total lunatic. My experience at pokerstars is that that the edge simple isn't that big, likely because most of the really bad players on pokerstars at the low limits are actually playing NL, and not limit ... (
But yeah, play tight, dont get angry and try to stay on your A-Game at all times and things should work out for ya.
i've tried to gear my online game towards less bluffing and more straightforward play because i play mostly on party, and people pay you off often enough that you don't have to bluff very often...
but on PS, playing completely straightforward just doesn't cut it....but even if you bluff more, you still aren't winning much....esp. preflop, people just don't defend their blinds....i'm finding it pretty boring, i'll probably go back to UB/Party once i clear the PS bonus
This is exactly how i find stars. Low limit is too tight and difficult to turn any real profit, but the low no limit games are the where the bulk of my profit comes from.As for low limit i prefer to play at UB, party poker's games are easy i just hate the software (for me thats enough to stay away from there)
Stay with it thou, it will only make you a better player.
You know what Adam i think you're so right. I seem to win at other sites and then manage to go lose it at pokerstars.
Daniel Negreanu talks about winning a stack and then going to vegas and losing it all and then coming back and grinding it out in toronto. Then building his stack again and repeat. So that's what pokerstars is to me, me taking a shot at vegas
Playing against a tougher group will improve your play IMO but will HURT your results.
Lets say that you would rate yourself a 7/10 as far as poker skill. If you play with a group of people who you would rate the average skill as 8/10 then you are sure to be cleaned out. You will gain some experiance and help your game but it could also be discouraging as you surely wont win.
One of the most important things you can master to improve your results in poker is your game selection. This is something I think most players underestimate. If you went out and found a game full of people that you would rate 2/10 for example YOU WOULD CRUSH THEM!
So if it is simply positive bankroll results you are looking for then FIND A NEW GAME. If you keep playing in the tough one you might learn a thing or two but it will hurt your bankroll at the same time.
Jeremy
I play a lot of cheap tourneys. I haven't had much luck at all. I've been reading books to try to get some pointers and exchanging points of view on this forum but I don't think you can replace experience.
For example, I joined the pokerforum tourney on pokerstars just for the experience. I am totally outclassed by most of the players there. But I posted one of my hands and have gotten incredible feedback into what the other players were thinking and what I did wrong. I think it was well worth the 11 bucks. I have incorporated some of that feedback into my tournament play already.
By the way, I did try a few ring games on pokerstars last night. Starting with the lowest limit up to .25/.50. I lost money on the .02/.04 because I was playing stupid - so were most of the other players and 20 cents isn't going to kill me. But I made money on the .05/.10 and the .25/.50. Not exactly an overwhelming sample to base a judgement on but I'm satisified the players at these levels aren't pro's or anything. One thing I did notice is they play much tighter than pacific. The pre-flop callers are usually less than 50% whereas on pacific they are often over 70%. I'll gradually move up the levels to see if things are any different. I'm not a high-stakes player (yet!) so don't expect me to be posting any results from the 10/20 tables...
HOW BIG IS THE GAP? Is stars THAT MUCH tougher than the other sites?
Anecdotally, I have ONLY played at stars. I started small - $100 buy in and played $.25/$.50 LIMIT and $5 SNGs almost exclusively for 3 months (and the odd forum tourney). I have found it tough and a real grind...hard to get up much (or down much)....basically break even play for 3 months. Then I started trying bigger games (sit down for this - I moved to $.50/$1 and $1/$2 games). I have been clobbering the $1/$2 for the last month or so....basically quadrupled the bankroll. Now I know my game has improved dramatically, but how can you explain the difference in results from the small move up in limits? And I'm pretty sure my play is improved and this is not just a short-term upswing as my SNG performance is markedly better the past 2 months (still playing $5 SNGs).
So my next question is this - how much BETTER could I be doing by moving to another site? If I'm beating up the tough $1/$2 at stars, could I not be expected, based on some of the posts, to play Ghengis Khan with similar limits at the other sites?
INterested in your feedback.
This is exactly how i find stars. Low limit is too tight and difficult to turn any real profit, but the low no limit games are the where the bulk of my profit comes from.[/QUOTE]
WOw! What am I doing wrong.....I am the opposite. I'm turning a tidy profit in the low limit ring games, but on the few occasions I play NL I usually hand over my $20 or $40 and go away with my tail firmly planted between my legs.
WHat is your no-limit strategy? Tight aggressive? loose aggressive? Maniac? All-in or fold every hand???
personally i like stars ring games the most , for the most part ppl seem to know when to fold a hand and when to play to the showdown and such b/c they are better and make smarter plays as well. i personally enjoy playing equal to or lesser competition, but not to the xtent of people being total fishy retards.....
WHat is your no-limit strategy? Tight aggressive? loose aggressive? Maniac? All-in or fold every hand???[/QUOTE]
I play really tight( about 8-13% flops seen in positions other than the blinds)
fold anything other than good draws and top pair big kicker)and bet usally 3-4x the big blind, if i think i can get away with going all in and getting called i will. Playing like this gives me a good table image and allows me to buy the pots in the hands that miss me(make sure the player knows what a table image is before trying to purchase a pot).It a little formulaic(it sounds like a word) but i find it works cosistiently.