A tournament hand from BCC
This is one of the more interesting hands ive seen in a while and I thought I would share it (up to a point for now) so that I might find out how other people would handle it.
Blinds are 500/1000 and you limp with QTc (pretend you did and that you were the kind of player that will do this to attempt a steal on the flop).
Two other players limp and both blinds complete. All five players who take the flop are fairly solid players and NOT the ones you want to play a hand against given the choice.
The flop comes down 9c6c4d and you fire 3k at it with your flush draw after both blinds check. A young kid who plays fairly aggressive and would make a re-steal attempt in this spot makes it 10k to go. Everyone folds to you and you get the kids chip count. The kid has 24k left.
I figure that the kids possible holdings are as follows.
-AKc
-AA or KK as he is capable of limping with big hands pre flop. He might or might not have a club down.
-99, 66 or 44 as he is not likely to slow play a set with this board. Less likely 99 as I think he would have raised coming in pre-flop.
-It is possible he has limped with a hand like 87 suited with the same intentions as you had to steal the pot on the flop.
-AKo is a possiblility as well since he might limp re-raise with this hand and is now trying to pick up the pot after that plan had turned to dissaster.
-A9 suited is also a possiblity or the fact that if this kid puts you on a flush draw he is the kind of player who will raise with almost any holding planning to push on the turn (if you miss) to pick up the pot.
You have 7k to call and peel off the turn. You have 3rd nut flush draw and 2 overcards which may all be good but if you hit an over card you are likely going to have to play for all of your chips and have a tough call.
*Insert opinions here*
Im going to go a little further with this and tell you that the flop is called after much hesitation and the turn comes with the 4c. Now the board reads 9c6c4d4c and you have made you r draw. The pot is 25k and you cover the kid who has 24k remaining.
You have 40k left in chips and are first to act. What do you do?
Blinds are 500/1000 and you limp with QTc (pretend you did and that you were the kind of player that will do this to attempt a steal on the flop).
Two other players limp and both blinds complete. All five players who take the flop are fairly solid players and NOT the ones you want to play a hand against given the choice.
The flop comes down 9c6c4d and you fire 3k at it with your flush draw after both blinds check. A young kid who plays fairly aggressive and would make a re-steal attempt in this spot makes it 10k to go. Everyone folds to you and you get the kids chip count. The kid has 24k left.
I figure that the kids possible holdings are as follows.
-AKc
-AA or KK as he is capable of limping with big hands pre flop. He might or might not have a club down.
-99, 66 or 44 as he is not likely to slow play a set with this board. Less likely 99 as I think he would have raised coming in pre-flop.
-It is possible he has limped with a hand like 87 suited with the same intentions as you had to steal the pot on the flop.
-AKo is a possiblility as well since he might limp re-raise with this hand and is now trying to pick up the pot after that plan had turned to dissaster.
-A9 suited is also a possiblity or the fact that if this kid puts you on a flush draw he is the kind of player who will raise with almost any holding planning to push on the turn (if you miss) to pick up the pot.
You have 7k to call and peel off the turn. You have 3rd nut flush draw and 2 overcards which may all be good but if you hit an over card you are likely going to have to play for all of your chips and have a tough call.
*Insert opinions here*
Im going to go a little further with this and tell you that the flop is called after much hesitation and the turn comes with the 4c. Now the board reads 9c6c4d4c and you have made you r draw. The pot is 25k and you cover the kid who has 24k remaining.
You have 40k left in chips and are first to act. What do you do?
Comments
Assuming you went ahead and got the flush on the turn, I'd check. He's got to know you are on a draw. Given that, he knows you have made your flush. Now, he may have the nut flush, a fh or quads, all of which beat you. Do you want to throw chips in the pot to find out? Of course, an aggressive player will bet into you with nothing knowing full well you have a flush, letting you think he's got the better hand. If you take him for that, then you can just call him or go over the top if you dare.
You are a much more experienced player than I am. I'd love to hear what you did. Am I far too cautious?
On the flop if you can put him on a good hand (overpair with a club) or a great hand like a flopped set and think that you can get paid off if you make it then I think going past the flop is a good play.
The problem here is that on the turn you have made your hand and now may be dead. You could also be good now and in a spot to get some much needed chips. Lets say your opponent has slowplayed black aces, the turn is not a great one but he has picked up a flush draw and may be willing to gamble in this spot as the outcome could sit him with enough chips to make a fair run at the final table.
Dont forget that it is not impossible for this kid to have been making a play on the flop. A stone cold bluff is not a play that you can rule out.
Would he really call your preflop bet with any hand containing a 4?
I don't know this player, but when the turn flushes I'm feeling pretty
good. But tournament play is tricky... I think I'd bet 2/3 of what he
has left, but I don't know, I wasn't there....
stp
I held 66 for a flopped set. The turn paired the board and made my opponents flush at the same time. BINGO!
On the turn the flush bet out 12k into me (half my stack) I thought for a second, re-checked my cards and moved in. I was trying to sell limping with AA and having a club. After a long time and being put on the clock he LAYS DOWN his flush face up. This was the best fold I saw and that was 12k in chips I could have used. Everyone at the table had thought (and said) that it was a bad laydown. The hand I was trying to sell (AcAx) the player beside my opponent told him that is what he put me on. After that was said I think he regreted laying it down. Its funny how everyone else bought it BUT the one I needed to. I think it wasnt a hand that crossed his mind.
I posted this because I have thought a lot about that hand because I figure I made a HUGE mistake. 12k was a big amount of chips at that point and I NEED to get all of them in that spot and it was possible. I should have smooth called and then he would push on the river as long as no scare card comes (another club, 9, 4 and maybe an Ace)
At this pint if you are the one holding the flush have you not pretty much commited yourself to calling once you bet 12k making your call 12k into a pot of 61k?
A great laydown but maybe a mistake on the turn by him. No way I was letting him know that:)
I'm curious why you pushed all-in once you had the fh. I like the idea of a slow-play here since I think he is basically drawing dead. If someone smooth called my big bet, I'd be a bit cautious on the river though. Maybe if a blank hits the river, he'd bet out again, putting you on a busted draw.
Or is there a subtle nuance of strategy I'm missing here?
I don't think it was a mistake to lay it down...he still has 28K in chips (if my math is correct) which is more than enough at these blind levels. It's all about survival and he must have figured you for the boat....I can only see laying it down if I'm pretty sure I'm beat - maybe he got a read on you and knew he was beat? Other considerations - what is his view of the table/game environment? Can he reasonably mount a comeback with 28 K if he folds now? Could he mount a comeback with 16 K if he calls and loses? To a large extent it's about survival in a tournament, but also about your motives - trying to win? trying to make the money? trying to amass huge stack for the next day?
Bottom line - I think he made the right play - as you said, a great laydown.
How did he end up doing after this hand?
I understand that survival is the most important thing in tournaments but when he bet half of my remaining chips I had figured he would not be able to let go. A smooth call was the right course of action.
Making this good laydown was not wasted as he finished on the final table I belive in 7th position (could be 8th) earning himself somewhere in the $7000 area.
Perhaps he looked at it this way - he bet out 12K into you on the turn, 1/2 your stack as you say. If you muck, you still have 24K which is enough to make a comeback. So for you to go all in, he must figure you've got the goods - YOU WEREN"T POT COMMITTED, but you pushed it all in. If he respected you as a solid player, I can see him laying it down- figuring you wouldn't risk your tourney on a bluff or vulnerable holding. He put you on a boat or a better flush perhaps (what were his pocket cards?). If his flush was weak, he could walk away.
Thanks for posting - it was a good one. And congrats.