Pocket 10's at final
So here is the set up. 8 players left of 104 starting field. Final table. Stack 39k. Chip average 45k approx. Blinds 5k/10k
Money jump, $50 next eliminated player. Short stack with wide range in early position moves all in for 23k, total pot is now 38k.
Late position I look down on 10 10. Stop. The table is folding to min raises pre and there are a few stacks that cannot survive another rotation. I can fold and look for spots or hope for players to bust and move me up the money. The action won't get back to me for a bit. First is a $500 seat and $500 cash.
But. I have an M of 2.5 and a decent pocket pair against a fairly loose player. I bust him the money still jumps and I have a good stack to take a shot at first.
I shove all in to isolate, we roll and he shows KJ off. The flop is good but that dreaded king on the turn (my demise the last 3 tourneys) shows and I have one rotation left for chips.
A few hands later I look down at QJ in early. UTG shoves for 15k. I am going to get hit in the blinds with one M. I have to push, no one is going to fold for less than a blind more. Its up to the poker gods now. I put it all in and two players call behind. This is actually good for me in one perspective.
If they eliminate utg here and me, I get 7th money as I have him covered in chips, even if he has the better hand. Almost a get out of jail free card. If I get lucky, this pot is huge and again I have a shot at it, step out of the grave.
The board hits 5,5,5 turn 8, river 7. Hey, there is no hope I have the best hand, one player will have Ace high as a minimum or a PP for the boat. I am hoping they bust UTG.
One shows an 8, but UTG has KK. I collect my envelope for 8th and give my name for leader points.
Considering all the angles, should I have mucked tens and tried to rob the tight players or have them get in with sub par hands for odds?
Fold the early QJ? It was best (preflop) after his KK, the chip leaders called for odds and the chance to bust 2 players that can do no more harm. The side would have replaced my all in chips almost and given me one more hand
Thoughts?
Money jump, $50 next eliminated player. Short stack with wide range in early position moves all in for 23k, total pot is now 38k.
Late position I look down on 10 10. Stop. The table is folding to min raises pre and there are a few stacks that cannot survive another rotation. I can fold and look for spots or hope for players to bust and move me up the money. The action won't get back to me for a bit. First is a $500 seat and $500 cash.
But. I have an M of 2.5 and a decent pocket pair against a fairly loose player. I bust him the money still jumps and I have a good stack to take a shot at first.
I shove all in to isolate, we roll and he shows KJ off. The flop is good but that dreaded king on the turn (my demise the last 3 tourneys) shows and I have one rotation left for chips.
A few hands later I look down at QJ in early. UTG shoves for 15k. I am going to get hit in the blinds with one M. I have to push, no one is going to fold for less than a blind more. Its up to the poker gods now. I put it all in and two players call behind. This is actually good for me in one perspective.
If they eliminate utg here and me, I get 7th money as I have him covered in chips, even if he has the better hand. Almost a get out of jail free card. If I get lucky, this pot is huge and again I have a shot at it, step out of the grave.
The board hits 5,5,5 turn 8, river 7. Hey, there is no hope I have the best hand, one player will have Ace high as a minimum or a PP for the boat. I am hoping they bust UTG.
One shows an 8, but UTG has KK. I collect my envelope for 8th and give my name for leader points.
Considering all the angles, should I have mucked tens and tried to rob the tight players or have them get in with sub par hands for odds?
Fold the early QJ? It was best (preflop) after his KK, the chip leaders called for odds and the chance to bust 2 players that can do no more harm. The side would have replaced my all in chips almost and given me one more hand
Thoughts?
Comments
And the main question, how did you let yourself get to an M of 2.5? Well into the red zone... I would have been pushing almost ATC much earlier, assuming
I could be 1st in...
You play MTT's to win them, not to finish 2rd or 3rd or 6th. I just really hate your logic that you are looking for reasons to FOLD instead of praising jebus that you found a spot you can get into without risking your entire tournament.
With the qj hand. You have very few chips left and your going to be in the blinds soon. You might not find a better hand then that so that play looks okay. As compuease said you should have pushed the rest of your chips with atc, first in of course a little earlier then you did.
Players at a final table have different motivations driving them. Some are trying to win the tourney and others are trying to survive as long as possible and move up the money list. Isn't it correct in poker to hold out for the best equity possible? Meaning moving up the money list.
Maybe you could have folded the pocket tens hand and tried to move up as far as possible but by doing so you give yourself no way to win the tourney. The best you could do was move up a few spots. I don't think folding your way to the best finish is wrong or neither is looking for a confrontation against another player looking to double up.
I pushed instantly with the tens, I knew I had to push and play them, especially with the player it was against. AND I am playing to win. The $120 for 8th is one good pot at a cash table most would agree. Not gonna give me any kinda rush, BUT!
The chip average isn't even a small blind difference from my stack. We all have 2-4 M here, as GTA pointed out this is your standard, fast low limit structure, but you get what you pay for...
Pushing ATC earlier, Agree 100%, but there are 8 other players who know that move and have been doing it ahead of me or, since a min raise commits almost any one, a push over top will be a race.
Racing ATC? Calling ATC?
All the angles I hoped to hear where mentioned. I thought I couldn't hope for better hands and situations to put it in with.
I hate that our tables low M also could have easily seen me fold up $300 bucks more, which well can be arguement to fold like a pussy
I took the no guts no glory road, settled for the "had to play for first"
Still not sure what would have been smartest as far as a successful night goes
I also don't call a shove with QJ off ever that deep, you are up against Ace high at least and you are just donating.
Most times you want to be the pusher. Like earlier posted you need to start making moves before the final table to give yourself some chips to play with. I understand the 2.5M situation but at the same time with such a tight table you can easily exploit raises in late position and take down blinds/antes. I don't normally raise on the button or limp there unless I have a monster because most live players have recognized that a button raise is a steal and will play back at you, but they haven't figured out the cut off means the same thing...weird...
Once again don't be too results orientated as you progress through more and more tournies these situations will be automatic and you will feel confident you are doing the right thing and that will improve your overall win rate.
Cheers