coin flips

Dave,

I was having some fun with a holdem poker calculator.

I was trying to figure out the right approach if i have a read on a player as having a small pocket pair.

I know people like pushing with cards like AK, but in reality other than higher pocket pairs, the cards that have a better than 50% chance of beating those low pocket pairs are the mid-level suited connectors (T9, 98, 87 etc)

In reality cards like T9o stood a better chance then AK in the event of a heads on challenge. Obviously the few extra points are a matter of the limited straight draws you can make with AK, as opposed to suited connectors.

So if you are late in a tourney, don't any suited connectors give you almost as fighting a chance as AK, as long as you're not facing a big overpair

Comments

  • It's interesting - and even a little confusing at first glance. You've hit on something that sort of tickles the mind. Poker can be a lot more like Paper, Rock, Scissors than a coin-flip. I came across some of these sort of scenarios in the past and it took some thought to get my mind around it. But using an example along the lines of what you've cited;
    J:club: T:club: is a favorite over 5:spade: 5:diamond: (about 53% to win)

    5:spade: 5:diamond: is a favorite over A:club: K:diamond: (about 55% to win)

    A:club: K:diamond: is a favorite over J:club: T:club: (about 60% to win)

    rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper, paper beats rock. A little strange, isn't it?

    I ran into this when I was going over some of the essays at Sklansky's site,
    http://www.twoplustwo.com/dsessay3.html

    When all 3 face eachother, A:club: K:diamond: is a very slight favorite and the 5's are the overall underdog.
  • Going back you your T-9 example, the problem is that you do NOT know that your opponent has. So, suppose for sake of argument you know your opponent has a pair Q-Q to 2-2. A-K is 50/50 against any of those pair. T-9 is in big trouble against Q-Q to 9-9.

    In other words, it will REALLY depend on how good your read is. If you have him dead on T-9 may be better. But, A-K leaves you a lot more room for error.
  • mork wrote:
    When all 3 face eachother, A:club: K:diamond: is a very slight favorite and the 5's are the overall underdog.
    That is due to the fact the Ace is of the same suit as the suited connectors. Less chance for them to make the flush and if they do, there is a slight chance for another club to make the nut flush. Switch the A :club: to A :heart: . The connectors now have the advantage.

    Is it safe to conclude that any pair decreases in value as the number of callers increase? Lower pairs even more so?

    Heads up 5-5 against JTs the connectedness and suitedness are crucial. Change it to JTo and it becomes 50/50. I read that as a rule of thumb, suitedness adds 3-4% to the winning percentage for a hand. From the simulations I've done, that seems about right.

    Is there a simple way to value high cards, suitedness, connectedness vs pairs? Tough question, eh? How high do the pairs have to be to beat suitedness or connectedness?

    Miller addresses this in a way that is easy to understand in his Small Stakes book. My understanding is he puts top value on pairs, since they already are a 'made' hand. The others have to draw to beat them.

    Next he evaluates hands on the 3 planes: high cards, suitedness and connectedness, in that order. He says you need 2 out of 3 to play a non-pair hand but favours high cards over connectedness. Come to think of it, I guess Sklansky's classic rankings confirm this. Be careful with this, since Miller's ranking system is simplified for small stakes, loose hold 'em games and Sklanksy's are for a tighter game. Neither are for NL but I'm not sure if that matters when deciding to play a hand. :confused:

    Does anyone have any deeper thoughts on this than me? I thirst for knowledge. Nothing beats years of experience.
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