Do I fold AA here??
I think I know I'm getting better at poker when i actually wonder if laying down american airlines is a better idea then chance a huge suckout.... the scenario here is that I'm playing a stars Hubble Freeroll, and I'm about 30,000 chips greater than the average stack at this point and we're 60 players away from the 72 players who get to move on to round 2. I get AA, raise it 3x the BB to 9,000, and immediately get moved in on by the table chip leader to my left. Is this still an automatic call?? Or should I just blind out and hope for the best?? Ps. this is sort of a get this off my chest post, here's what happened.
I call and he turns up JJ, the flop (of course) comes J 9 2 the turn brings me a flush draw, but to no avail his mother*@#$@(*&#$ JJ took down my rockets and knocked me out of the tourney when I was in fairly good shape to move on. The worst part? I would've folded any other hand (except maybe KK) in this spot.
Ugh, just ugh...... after looking at how many players are left now (about half an hour later), it looks like my best option would have been just to fold out and hope for the best. So many dumb people in these things.....
How did that wanker make it so far in this tourney?? ??
*end rant*
I call and he turns up JJ, the flop (of course) comes J 9 2 the turn brings me a flush draw, but to no avail his mother*@#$@(*&#$ JJ took down my rockets and knocked me out of the tourney when I was in fairly good shape to move on. The worst part? I would've folded any other hand (except maybe KK) in this spot.
Ugh, just ugh...... after looking at how many players are left now (about half an hour later), it looks like my best option would have been just to fold out and hope for the best. So many dumb people in these things.....
How did that wanker make it so far in this tourney?? ??
*end rant*
Comments
Pre-flop is definitely not one of them.
been there, done that. Best advice, filter out the idiots on this site and just read the useful posts.
61,642,944 games 0.005 secs 12,328,588,800 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 81.148% 80.94% 00.20% 49896864 125190.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 18.852% 18.65% 00.20% 11495700 125190.00 { JJ }
Why wouldn't you want to get it all in when you are a 4 to 1 fav??
You aren't going to get many better spots than that.
You weren't close enough to the bubble, to not want to double through the chip leader...
you are not dominated by anything, except of course in even standing with a pair of aces. To fold the best hand pre flop that you can have, just because the chip leader put you all in, is like setting yourself up to fail. In order to win that tourney you need to take him out at some point and when better to double your stack then when u are moved all in holding aces pre flop.
The moral of this story here is that shit happens, and thats poker. JJ beats out AA sometimes, but so does 72. The only way to look at this is that you moved with the best of it, you got your money in good, and he lucked out.
AND THATS THE GAME WE LOVE TO PLAY!
P.S had he only min raised u and allowed you to see a flop, could you have folded anyways?
when the J high flop comes, he isn't going anywhere.
Just remember in any tournament where you go deep and/or win there are situations where you are going to have to get lucky and also hope that your hand holds up.
I have talked to many people including players who have won the Sunday Million on Stars and ask them how they won against these large player pools and they all say the same thing....they got lucky in a lot of spots and had their hands hold up.
Basically they ran like God throughout the tournament.
Just something to keep in the back of your head when playing these large MTTs. Skill will help you play consistent but every now and again luck never hurts anyone
In a satellite where every qualifier gets the exact same prize and you are at least 90% (preferably 100%) sure you can fold every hand and still blind in to that prize, folding AA pre-flop is correct.
Also, in certain (very limited) sit-n-go scenarios, folding AA pre-flop is also correct. For example:
$10 + $1 buy-in
Tourney pays: 1st $50, 2nd $30, 3rd $20
Current blind level: 500/1000
Current stacks:
Player 1: 5500
Player 2: 5500
Player 3: 37975
Player 4: 1025
Player 3 posts 500 sb
Player 4 posts 1000 bb
Player 4 (you) is dealt AhAc
Player 1 goes all-in for 5500
Player 2 calls all-in for 5500
Player 3 calls 5500
Player 4: ...
Fold your bullets here and you are virtually guaranteed to finish in at least 3rd ... possibly 2nd.
Call and you are likely to finish in 4th. Even if your AA does manage to hold up against 3 other hands (not a sure thing by any means), you're still on a very short stack and not likely to finish 1st. The gamble of the call is not worth the slightly improved chances of finishing 1st.
The cheater continues looking down his nose at every one. You sir are the captain of all things douche. Please DIAGF
There a great quote at the end of The Cinncinnati Kid: sometimes poker is about making the wrong moves at the right time.
Sounds like you played well and got sucked out on.
When I first started I built my roll from freerolls.
Moose is right that for a skilled player you're better off picking pennies off the street, but when I started, I sucked so badly that freerolls were better than losing money and better than playing play money.
Not to be a prick, but no... this means you are getting worse at poker...
Get your money in with the best hand. Contemplating laying down pre-flop monsters because you fear a suck-out is horrible play..
AA's are one of those things you can't screw up pre-flop... JUST RAISE and if you get pushed on, CALL... if you get re-raised, re-raise or push yourself.
Use the betting pre-flop to figure out what hand your oppt is likely holding. If he pushes, he would likely have TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AK, AQ (maybe), plus others if player is looser. You are HUGE against any of these hands.
I'm not even a fan of that SNG bubble situation, I call there and hopefully triple up. Is one player going to get eliminated?? Yes, but would you rather someone gets eliminated and you have a reasonable stack or still have your crappy short stack and likely worse cards to go with it?
Against 3 players playing top 10% of hands (which would make a certain amount of sense to call that pre-flop all-in) you are still an approx 65-35
favourite against ALL of them.
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 64.657% 62.61% 02.05% 694312 22752.33 { AA }
Hand 1: 11.746% 10.72% 01.02% 118903 11364.67 { 88+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 2: 11.801% 10.78% 01.02% 119539 11340.83 { 88+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 3: 11.797% 10.78% 01.02% 119535 11311.67 { 88+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }
So I'd probably take a shot here and hope to get a stack back to start doing some damage. But that's me...
Never post about laying down AA preflop
Both are bad ideas IMO
Agreed. Laying down a monster pre-flop simply out of fear of getting 'cracked' would be a huge leak and very stupid.
A rare pre-flop lay down of a monster because it is the mathematically correct play is good, solid poker. The mathematics of poker don't just involve hand A is XX% vs hand B.
Cash game - okay. Often not true in satellites when nearing the bubble. Sometimes (albeit rare) not true in sit-n-goes, at final tables or when nearing the bubble in a regular MTT.
Are you telling me you are calling yourself all-in pre-flop with AA for 100,000 chips in a satellite where 1st to 30th get the same prize, 33 players are left and 31st to 33rd currently have less than 5,000 chips?
Never say never.
IF the AA holds up, you would actually quadruple up and still NOT have a reasonable stack. 4100 chips. (Likely) 3 handed. In the SB for 500 next hand. 1500 in the pot before anything happens. Even after quading up, you would still have to immediately go all-in again with virtually anything. Lose and you probably finish 3rd ... gaining nothing over folding the previous hand and not risking losing that 3rd (or possibly 2nd) place cash.
If I'm not mistaken, there's a good 2+2 podcast with Dan Harrington that covers this subject. If I get a chance tonight, I'll try to find it.
I guess I don't think about these situations because I don't play in these types of events. But fair enough, I can see your point. When you are assured to be 'in the money' in a sat event where your finish 1st to 30th doesn't matter, you could fold AA's in that situation.
I think I was missing how big the big stack is in that equation, I'm used to the 1500 starting stack single tables and 4k of that is enough to possible cause some damage. However, with 5k starting stacks, that makes sense, though I would probably make the wrong play in this sitaution
I'll check my archives, and see if I can hunt it down.
I just re-listened to the Harrington episode. Nope. ??? Let me think about it and go through the archives. I should be able to figure out which guest talked about this.
I take it by you asking this question that you are just as confused as the rest of us
See here: A Perfect Example of When You Must Fold AA Preflop
/g2
Again you have to realize your position in the tourney and what the remaining stacks are.
Also more just wanted to whine about my aces cracked,which everyone here could tell me one of those stories so maybe it was inappropriate to post this here.
Anyway, I have never in my life folded AA (pf), but this was the first time I ever CONTEMPLATED folding, and it actually might have been the best decision in this case. If I was about 20-25 from the bubble with an above average stack I was folding for sure rather than risk getting sucked out on, which I actually think would be a good idea. No reason to risk my stack when I'm all but guaranteed to move on.
This was the exact situation, I just wasn't sure if I could have made it or not. Looking later, most likely I would have made it.