The pocket Qs problem (what would you do?)
Hey everyone, im new here. been playing poker for 4 years now.
for the longest time ive been of the opinion that pocket queens are one of the worst great hands you can be dealt. its a strong hand on paper, but so much potential to lose lots of money with them. (AK calling you is a coin-toss)
in the last month or so, ive lost almost every hand ive been dealt pocket Queens. id like to, if i may, present a good example i ran into, and ask how you would play the hand.
last night i was at Club Regent here in Winnipeg ($1/2 no limit cash game), and had pocket Qs in late position. i raised to $12 preflop, and got 1 caller, on whom i have position. the flop came down, 2-K-9, rainbow. he checks to me, I bet $20. he raises to $40. (bear in mind, he is an agressive player, the kind that wanders over from the high-stakes blackjack table with a handfull of $25 chips)
what would you do?
I decided before i made the $20 bet, that if i was raised i would Insta-fold. i threw my cards in face up, and he shows me 1 card, a Ten. he slightly laughed too, kinda like someone would if they showed a bluff, but he only showed one card. he says "you have to pay to see the other one". i offer him a $5 chip to see (i get generous when ive tripled my buy-in). he refuses to show me. im quite certain ive been bluffed.
im not angry about that hand, it wasnt a big pot. im actually glad i was in the mood to toss pocket Qs that easily. when i Insta-fold a big pocket pair that quickly, I like to tell myself ive gained a little table image.
for the longest time ive been of the opinion that pocket queens are one of the worst great hands you can be dealt. its a strong hand on paper, but so much potential to lose lots of money with them. (AK calling you is a coin-toss)
in the last month or so, ive lost almost every hand ive been dealt pocket Queens. id like to, if i may, present a good example i ran into, and ask how you would play the hand.
last night i was at Club Regent here in Winnipeg ($1/2 no limit cash game), and had pocket Qs in late position. i raised to $12 preflop, and got 1 caller, on whom i have position. the flop came down, 2-K-9, rainbow. he checks to me, I bet $20. he raises to $40. (bear in mind, he is an agressive player, the kind that wanders over from the high-stakes blackjack table with a handfull of $25 chips)
what would you do?
I decided before i made the $20 bet, that if i was raised i would Insta-fold. i threw my cards in face up, and he shows me 1 card, a Ten. he slightly laughed too, kinda like someone would if they showed a bluff, but he only showed one card. he says "you have to pay to see the other one". i offer him a $5 chip to see (i get generous when ive tripled my buy-in). he refuses to show me. im quite certain ive been bluffed.
im not angry about that hand, it wasnt a big pot. im actually glad i was in the mood to toss pocket Qs that easily. when i Insta-fold a big pocket pair that quickly, I like to tell myself ive gained a little table image.
Comments
dunno, sleep, coffee, think, and revisit tomorrow.
if preflop, i raise 6x the big blind, and i get called. im going to put them on, at the very least, King-rag, or Ace-rag (more likely im going to put them on Ace-face, 2 face cards, or pocket pair).
from their view, i raised 6x BB preflop (they should be putting me on the same hands i mentioned above). lets say they missed the flop, and i bet $20 like i did. theyre probably putting me on a King at least. the move is fold.
for him to raise double my $20 bet. he either has the King, or an underpair and hes looking for information.
over the next hour he bled chips very quickly (i took over $100 from him in one hand, there was a 4-flush on the board, and i took it with a 10-high flush. he showed me 2nd pair.)
i gave him too much credit early on, he turned out to be a total fish.
min raise tells me he had smaller pocket pair would be one of my thoughts.:)
What I believe Kristy_Sea meant was, that you could check the flop, if you suspect this guy is likely to checkraise, and also to keep the pot small.
The check-min-raise is rarely a bluff IMO, and there's no need to give him chips here, no knowing where you're at, because he's prolly going to give you some better opportunities later.
I'm going to have to disagree with your QQ statement and say that QQ is going to make you money in the long run. It's like those old bar nits who never raise with AK because it 'never hits'.
If it was a Bluff, he shows, he wants to piss you off.
I agree completely... What has he got to lose by not showing a bluff. All it is gonna do is get you pissed that you made the wrong decision. By not showing it says he clearly has it and is upset you didn't call.
Also, another factor in your decision would be stack sizes, but in this situation I think you made the right fold.
and my point is that if you're such a super-sick-psychic-reader-to-the-max..why did you donk off $20 in the first place?
With your 'read' and readiness to insta-fold to the min-raise: check the flop, there's very little coming that worsens your position..then you can fold for free if he bets the non-q turn.
The board wasn't that scarey that I am afraid of the K.
I guess you could try some other moves with QQ pre-flop. I guess it depends on the dynamics of the players at your table. If there are a few aggressive players to act behind you, calling is an option hoping for an opportunity to re-raise. Calling once in a while pre-flop (to mix up your game) is also an option. You don't want to be so predictable that everyone expects you to raise when you have a decent starting hand. If you get a dangerous flop, you can fold and move on with minimal damage to your stack.
As Joe mentioned, don't be afraid of over cards or a little resistance as your hand could still be good in this situation.
i see what you mean about checking for a free turn, youre right that was the right move there. when i made the $20 bet, i was mostly looking for information, but it was also a bluff. it is a move i had been making all night when i was in position. raise preflop - if the flop is checked to me, i make a continuation bet. i would almost not even call it a bluff, its move i make whenever i have the chance (as long as my spider-senses dont go off, and i think im being trapped).
and i didnt say i had a read on him, just that i noticed he was a total gambler. for all i know he could have seen the flop with 6-8 offsuit, and just planned from the beginning to try to bet me out of the hand. it wouldnt have been unlike him, based on how i had seen him play.
but its also not entirely impossible he saw the flop with K-T. loose players are bound to make a good play once in a while.
anyways, thanks for the advice guys. i did make the wrong move there. but it wasnt too wrong. a $20 loss isnt something to post on the internet about, its just a hand i run into far too often.
that is definitely how i would have played it if i was in earlier position, as there were a few aggressive players at the table. i dont think a single flop was seen all night for only the $2 BB.
Preflop: 6bb is a fine bet at 1/2NL.
Flop: K92 rainbow is a pretty dry flop. Except for some vague straight possibilities there are not any draws. AX is drawing to 3 outs and not much more more can hurt you. It's okay to check and let your good position work for you. c-betting is fine too. but you don't need to c-bet 20, 40-60% pot is probably fine.
I'd bet $15 about 30% of the time here. .... checking the other 70% of the time.
You're playing the hand as you..and not as someone prepared to fold to the min raise.
So you check, and the turn comes a blank; now what? if the other player bets, do you fold? what if he checks? are you going to bet now? personally, I prefer to know where I stand on the flop.
Here I am calling the raise and seeing what happens on the turn.
If he bets again and the card is a scare card, maybe I get away
If it's a blank and he checks, you can check behind or bet again.
If your opinion of him is that he's a loose player, maybe he has K-10, but I am going to find out 85% of the time by calling all the way unless my gut says otherwise
True, I was trying to gently say I don't think that, "bet 80% pot and then fold" is ever the best line. ...
I agree with the bet size.
I disagree with the frequency.
I'd bet less than 50% of the time.
Earlier I said I'd bet 50% of the pot about 30% of the time.
I think 0-15% of the time is a better frequency.
I don't want to play a big pot with second pair.
I want to let my good position do the work for me.
So I can check behind and let my position get me some more information.
There are no draws so there is not much reason to bet.
On the turn I'll know what the turn card is and the villain's reaction to it.
How big are the stack sizes?
I think they are not more than 300BB.
Jacks on the other hand, they are tricky. Often I call in early position, and prey. There's 3 ways to play Jacks pre flop - and all of them are wrong.
(Now if I was Kristy, I would already have some image of a hot chick coming back from the grave, but I'm not that talented ;-)
Got your back Al..
Kristy says to fed..
Kristy Sea: omg, if they don't know that you are girl pro lol CPF is officially retarded
Kristy Sea: but it could be very LOL if used well
He has neither confirmed or denied as of yet.