Question about obvious illegal move at Sarnia
I was a railbird for about 1/2 hour today watching the $5/$10 table. On one hand, there were 4 or 5 people in the pot. Flop was 6,6,5 rainbow, the turn and river cards were irrelevant to the example, but I think they were an 8, and J. The move in question was that as soon as the river card was turned up, the guy in first position throws his cards down on the table (5,5) with a full house, BEFORE anyone bets the river. Of course everyone folded after him when they saw the hand, and they gave him the pot, but shouldn't this forfeit his hand 
I got the impression when the dealer told him he had to wait that it wasn't the first time he'd done it. Obviously he had the best hand or someone behind him would have complained. He cheated himself out of another round of bets by doing this, but I still can't see how his hand would count when he does that?
Another guy laid his cards down on the showdown, and grabbed part of the board to show he had the straight (he was beaten by a flush though), which I assume is another no-no.
As an aside, the play seemed very loose (5-6 in per hand), and many of the people were horrible players. I think anyone who can beat .25/.50 online could have torn this table up. I wish I'd have had time to sit down... ;-)
I got the impression when the dealer told him he had to wait that it wasn't the first time he'd done it. Obviously he had the best hand or someone behind him would have complained. He cheated himself out of another round of bets by doing this, but I still can't see how his hand would count when he does that?
Another guy laid his cards down on the showdown, and grabbed part of the board to show he had the straight (he was beaten by a flush though), which I assume is another no-no.
As an aside, the play seemed very loose (5-6 in per hand), and many of the people were horrible players. I think anyone who can beat .25/.50 online could have torn this table up. I wish I'd have had time to sit down... ;-)
Comments
If the dealer determines the cards are thrown down in any sort of motion which suggests folding and/or any part of a hole card crosses over the betting line, the hand should be mucked by the dealer immediately.
Repeated offences of this suggest angle shooting, and should be disallowed (i.e. the hand declared dead) after one (or several) warnings. There is some judgement involved as to whether this is a clueless player repeatedly making a mistake, or an angle shooter. Remember that many angle shooters attempt to *appear* clueless.
A mild offence, and a warning is in order. It's hard to imagine cheating going on here unless you start getting into severe board touching** where the board cards start getting comingled with either the hole cards and/or the muck. In the latter cases, either a misdeal or awarding the pot to the opponent(s) outright may be called for.
In the example you mentioned, awarding the pot to the actual winner of the hand seems like it would be a sensible thing to do.
He actually showed the hand and then bet? Or do you mean everyone just mucked worse hands as if the river betting round was over.
ScottyZ
*Except on the World Poker Tour, which is apparently small-time enough to have no use for these kinds of rules.
**In which case, the dealer should call out for assistance, something along the lines of "The player is touching my special area!"
I'm sure the guy messing with the board wasn't trying to cheat, but I just thought touching it at all was not allowed.
The play in general seemed pretty sloppy.
Thanks for the info though.
Yes, it's definitely not (or shouldn't be) allowed. The real question when this sort of thing happens is whether the infraction is serious enough to warrant some kind of penalty or not.
ScottyZ