Bad beat or something else? NOTE: Really Really Long Post

Chugs

I’ve done the hand play based on an online game log style.

Okay I’m going to post this using as much detail as possible. I want to make one thing clear, I am generally a really trusting person and that’s why maybe I’m only 50/50 on what I think happened here. Also I’ll mention things I only noticed after the fact or during the middle of the hand, but I’ll list them at the end.

I’m playing at a pokerroom in Toronto (don’t ask where because I’m not going to say it in the forum). I’ve never played there before but was refered by someone I’m willing to trust. They deal 4/8 hold’em. I’ve been playing for maybe 70-80 minutes, up a little. Won one big pot with a nut flush and lost another to a guy chasing a gutshot, to my two pair.


THE SITUATION
Table has lost a few players and is down to 7.
Seat 4 is the button
I’m Small Blind in Seat 5

CHUGS (SEAT 5) posts small blind ($2)
SEAT 6 posts big blind ($4)
SEAT 7 STRADDLES ($8)
SEAT 1 RE-STRADDLES ($12)
SEAT 2 RE-RE-STRADDLES ($16)

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to chugsalot [ Ac, Ah ] (I am honestly considering folding it here)
Seat 3 folds
Seat 4 calls ($16)
CHUGS raises ($4) to $20
Seat 2 says “That’s the real hand”
Seat 3 says “Just cap it”
Seat 6 (BB) folds
Seat 7 raises BLIND ($8) to $28 (don’t know how that happened)
Seat 1 folds
Seat 2 calls ($12) BLIND
Seat 4 calls ($12)
CHUGS calls ($8)
POT $128

** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qh, 2d, 3d ]
CHUGS bets ($4)
Seat 7 Calls ($4)
Seat 2 Calls ($4)
Seat 4 Calls ($4)
Seat 7 says “I called, but I got no draws”
POT $128 + $16 = $144

** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4c ]
CHUGS bets ($8)
Seat 7 calls ($8)
Seat 2 raises ($8) to $16
Seat 4 folds (I see AK with Ad)
CHUGS calls ($8) <--- THIS IS THE ONE MISTAKE I MADE, DOESN’T MATTER
Seat 7 calls ($8)
POT $144 + 48 = $192

** Dealing River ** : [ 6s ]
CHUGS checks
Seat 7 bets ($8)
Seat 2 bets ($8)
CHUGS calls ($8)

POT $192 + $24 = $216

** Summary **
Main Pot: $216 |
Board: [Qh, 2d, 3d, 4c, 6s]
Seat 1, list $12 (folded pre-flop)
Seat 2, lost $56 [Qc, 4s] [ two pair, -- Qh,Qc,4c,4s,6s]
Seat 3, (folded)
Seat 4, lost $32, folded on the turn [ Ad, K(black) ]
Seat 5, lost 25 (folded)
CHUGS, lost $56 [Ac, Ah] [ one pair, -- Ac, Ah, Qh, 6s, 4c]
Seat 7, Won $216 and bet $56 [6h, 6c] [set -- 6h, 6c, 6s, Qh, 4c]


NOTES and items I noticed found out later.
New dealer on that hand
New deck, noticed it the hand after. When did we start using a new deck?
One player in the hand was one of the owners (Seat 2)
Someone had mentioned a straddle but didn’t maybe two hands ago
There had never been a straddle all game, and never one again.
Two hands ago, I was about to be moved to the other table but somehow didn’t
3-4 hands later this table closed and we all moved to the other table.
I don’t remember if the deck was shuffled or not (an obvious question)
Owner invited me to come back and play in their no limit game

The last point was just for amusment

So obvious question? Bad beat and I’m just reading into something that doesn’t exist or am I the sucker

Munchkin5

If you were refered to by a freind that you could trust then you have to just take the hit. AA gets cracked all the time in 4-8, However having the owner of the establishment playing in his own card room and having one of his employees deal the cards is only asking for troublesome questions. You have reasons to be suspicous but if they were going to rig a game would they not rig a bigger game for more money. Lastly you need to pay more attention at the table while your playing and take note if the deck was shuffled at least. Play smart Out.

Unknown

The biggest points are that you didn't notice if the new deck was shuffled, and that you didn't notice the new deck. It's impossible for me to know if you were cheated or not, as I wasn't there. That being said, poker is an individual game, and it's up to the individual to look after his best interests. Keeping an eye on what's going on in the dealer box is now second nature to me, even in casinos.

Regards,
all_aces

vinsanity

Its hard for me to say whether you were cheated because if there's a lack of direct evidence then its very subjective and speculative. However, I don't see any major problems with how they played their hands. Seat 2 raised with 2 pr on the turn. Seat 7 called with a 2 outer on the flop but by that time the pot was laying 35 to 1 and then he picked up a gutshot.


The problems that I see are the straddles. If its allowed, it should be clearly posted or announced. It can't be made up on the fly like that. Another thing is the $8 raise PF. Like you said, how the hell did that happen when you're playing 4/8. And when you raised to 16, it was capped right there anyways unless it's stated max 4 raises. (I'm going by personal experience, usually max 3 raises)

professor

That's quite a good bad beat story. I'd say it's unlikely you were cheated, but with that kind of game you have to be very observant.
I cut my real poker teeth playing $4-8 hold'em here "underground"
with pimps, hustlers, and gangsters 'til the room closed up. Never
liked the guys much. There were a few that were cousins I guess and
would ram every pot with nothing. The whole table but me was loose aggressive... very hard to be rational for a beginner.

Maybe you were cheated Chugs, but maybe you were rivered by an inferior player -- drunk on testosterone -- at a bigger game than you're used to,
and you might be looking for explanations that aren't available.

Like it all comes down to -- "it depends". I don't know.

ScottyZ

The most elaborate bad beat story yet.

My thinking is that you did not get cold decked if the final board was Q2346, the winner has Q4 and you had merely an overpair.

Suggesting that you should fold AA pre-flop is beyond ridiculous, so I hope you meant this as a joke.

I wouldn't say that slowing down on the turn is much of a mistake. This is rammin-jammin play the cards blind psycho low-limit. Someone *can* have 2 pair or a striaght here.

Don't play there again if you will be even *remotely* suspicious that cheating is going on. I'd have to be pretty convinced there was cheating going on before I avoided a 4-8 game with players who'll call 5 or 6 bets blind pre-flop.

ScottyZ

micr0be

maybe when seat 3 said "just cap it" he raised to 24 which is ok and indicates he wants someone to actually cap it...and then seats 7 raised to 28

first straddle makes the cap 20
2nd makes it 24
3rd makes it 28

Chugs

sorry to avoid confusion.

Mostly this is a bad beat story, but the straddle, re-straddle, and re-re-straddle out of nowhere (never happened again and never happened before) just seemed so odd.

I can't object to the way anyone played post flop at all.