I'm impressed that you kept track of the rake; did rake-aware DirtArse teach you that? Most live players I encounter are clueless what the table rake is, which really sucks in illegal clubs where I know a few scummy dealers will take even more than the already-high rake. I've seen rake errors before and in this case, the dealer was probably coming from a 2/5 table.
The rake amount is printed on a plaque on most tables, and the whole rake schedule is printed on a sheet posted at the Brush desk.
I'm very skeptical that a dealer at a 1-2 table would have been taking the wrong amount. Almost all of those dealers are extremely experienced and wouldn't make a rookie mistake like that.
I'm impressed that you kept track of the rake; did rake-aware DirtArse teach you that? Most live players I encounter are clueless what the table rake is, which really sucks in illegal clubs where I know a few scummy dealers will take even more than the already-high rake. I've seen rake errors before and in this case, the dealer was probably coming from a 2/5 table.
Yea ever since Vegas in my defense I kinda targeted him at the table to show him my skills, long story short he crushed me when I shoved pf with aces and he flopped a set of kings. The next day he crushed me again when I shoved my set of 3s on a dry board when he raised me and he turned a bigger set lol.
I'm not a bad player I just make the wrong moves/ don't apply proper math. So I'm taking a 4 day DirtArse poker class at the end of the month because he says I can't even beat the rake when I play lol
The rake amount is printed on a plaque on most tables, and the whole rake schedule is printed on a sheet posted at the Brush desk.
I'm very skeptical that a dealer at a 1-2 table would have been taking the wrong amount. Almost all of those dealers are extremely experienced and wouldn't make a rookie mistake like that.
Not to say that the dealers there are amatures because their not but we were getting raked 14$ and as for posting the info on the table we were playing in the back on a tournament table they had started a cash game on because the place was packed. I even inquired what the rake was because I thought it was insane that it was double the rake of Quebec casinos
Not to say that the dealers there are amatures because their not but we were getting raked 14$ and as for posting the info on the table we were playing in the back on a tournament table they had started a cash game on because the place was packed. I even inquired what the rake was because I thought it was insane that it was double the rake of Quebec casinos
Please make sure that you talk to a floor manager if anything like that happens. Obviously it's not in anyone's interest for that to occur.
So the first two flights of Event 1 went off yesterday and there were 676 entries total, with Day 1c and 1d coming tonight and Tuesday night at 7pm. 82 and 75 players have already qualified for Day 2. Clearly the guarantee ($100K) will be surpassed but even more, those numbers suggest some pretty amazing value for a $135 + $15 tourney.
Event 3 is similar, but it's a $225 + $25 with SIX starting days and a $200K guarantee. Whoa.
Laptops, iPads, headphones & all electronic devices were allowed as long as they don't interfere when you're in a hand. So we can bring our Monster DNA headphones. Some even play online while at the table.
I'm impressed that you kept track of the rake; did rake-aware DirtArse teach you that?
I did teach him about the rake, but as usual he ignored what I told him which is why he's playing 1/2 with $14 rake! As nice as Playground is, I have never and will never play cash there with that rake structure! I've got my nephew coming over at the end of the month, and I'll have a three day coaching session with him, and hopefully he'll learn a few things that he'll apply going forward, otherwise he'll forever have the tag "fish" applied on his forehead!
I did teach him about the rake, but as usual he ignored what I told him which is why he's playing 1/2 with $14 rake! As nice as Playground is, I have never and will never play cash there with that rake structure! I've got my nephew coming over at the end of the month, and I'll have a three day coaching session with him, and hopefully he'll learn a few things that he'll apply going forward, otherwise he'll forever have the tag "fish" applied on his forehead!
i still have that tag and I am only 90 years of age.do i need some lessons from you!!:D
Not sure what you're all on about, about the rake. 10% to a max of $8. What is it in Niagara or Windsor or anywhere in Ontario for that matter? Free drinks, free food doesn't help compensate for the extra couple bucks? Good service, clean facility, polite staff, chip runners, capable dealers that can deal more than 15 hands an hour on and on I could go about the differences compared to what we have back home in Ontario. Some of you say the cash game here cant be beat because of the rake is puzzling to me. Im just a recreational player, but Im up over a grand at the cash this week here. What would I be up with a better rake? Another 30 - 40 bucks?? I have had eight great meals, plenty of drinks.... Id say Im ahead of the game!!! Chopped two deep stack turbos this week as well, Loving the Playground!!
Not sure what you're all on about, about the rake. 10% to a max of $8. What is it in Niagara or Windsor or anywhere in Ontario for that matter? Free drinks, free food doesn't help compensate for the extra couple bucks? Good service, clean facility, polite staff, chip runners, capable dealers that can deal more than 15 hands an hour on and on I could go about the differences compared to what we have back home in Ontario. Some of you say the cash game here cant be beat because of the rake is puzzling to me. Im just a recreational player, but Im up over a grand at the cash this week here. What would I be up with a better rake? Another 30 - 40 bucks?? I have had eight great meals, plenty of drinks.... Id say Im ahead of the game!!! Chopped two deep stack turbos this week as well, Loving the Playground!!
Variance
But $8 is more then fair considering the casino is close to the same rake with far less offered.
Some of you say the cash game here cant be beat because of the rake is puzzling to me. Im just a recreational player, but Im up over a grand at the cash this week here. What would I be up with a better rake? Another 30 - 40 bucks?
If you are only a recreational player then yeah $6 or $8 dollars is no big deal when you play 3 or 4 times a year. That extra $100 - $150 is the cost of your "entertainment", but if you are like some of the others here who like myself consider poker to be a money making venture then $8 is just not ideal. Yeah there is not much difference winning $1000 or $970, but unfortunately for most of us, winning sessions are also accompanied by losing sessions.
Lets say you are a modest winner pre-rake and play 3 times a week only.
Let's use 2 BB/100 as your win rate which is very solid online where rake can be as low as 0.3% in my case with rakeback and loyalty programs.
At 2BB/100 at 1/2 if you were playing 20hrs a week (600 hands) you would gross approx $48 a session. Average that out for the entire year and your gross profit is somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500. Now lets assume you play 25% of the hands and contribute 1/3 of the rake on average in each of those pots. That's (30000 * 0.25 * $1.33 = $10,000).
Using an average pot size of only $40 you can see that the rake you will pay for the year is approx $10000, which means you will have a net profit after rake of $2500 - $10000 = MINUS $7500! So basically even though you are better than average, you will be out 7.5 Grand! Now I realize that the difference between $6 and $8 only applies to pots of $60 dollars or bigger, but if you play big ball poker like I do, then at least a third of those pots will be hit with an extra $0.67 a hand.... that means that out of the 7500 hands you played that year, 2500 were over $60 and therefore you paid approx $1500 more than you needed to!
I have not even added tipping!
Only 10% of players are true winning players and you have to be honest with yourself as to whether you can realistically win at more than 8BB/100 which is the minimum you will need to "break even" at Playground. I say to you that most of us are not, which is why most of the people on this forum, including Beefylogs, my nephew are crazy to play there on a regular basis... Once in a while for fun and entertainment; yeah go for it, but if you expect to make a profit there, you better be up in Blondefish or Mike Watson territory skill wise or you are lighting a match to your money!
If you are only a recreational player then yeah $6 or $8 dollars is no big deal when you play 3 or 4 times a year. That extra $100 - $150 is the cost of your "entertainment", but if you are like some of the others here who like myself consider poker to be a money making venture then $8 is just not ideal. Yeah there is not much difference winning $1000 or $970, but unfortunately for most of us, winning sessions are also accompanied by losing sessions.
Lets say you are a modest winner pre-rake and play 3 times a week only.
Let's use 2 BB/100 as your win rate which is very solid online where rake can be as low as 0.3% in my case with rakeback and loyalty programs.
At 2BB/100 at 1/2 if you were playing 20hrs a week (600 hands) you would gross approx $48 a session. Average that out for the entire year and your gross profit is somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500. Now lets assume you play 25% of the hands and contribute 1/3 of the rake on average in each of those pots. That's (30000 * 0.25 * $1.33 = $10,000).
Using an average pot size of only $40 you can see that the rake you will pay for the year is approx $10000, which means you will have a net profit after rake of $2500 - $10000 = MINUS $7500! So basically even though you are better than average, you will be out 7.5 Grand! Now I realize that the difference between $6 and $8 only applies to pots of $60 dollars or bigger, but if you play big ball poker like I do, then at least a third of those pots will be hit with an extra $0.67 a hand.... that means that out of the 7500 hands you played that year, 2500 were over $60 and therefore you paid approx $1500 more than you needed to!
I have not even added tipping!
Only 10% of players are true winning players and you have to be honest with yourself as to whether you can realistically win at more than 8BB/100 which is the minimum you will need to "break even" at Playground. I say to you that most of us are not, which is why most of the people on this forum, including Beefylogs, my nephew are crazy to play there on a regular basis... Once in a while for fun and entertainment; yeah go for it, but if you expect to make a profit there, you better be up in Blondefish or Mike Watson territory skill wise or you are lighting a match to your money!
Thanks DA great eye opener for me.You have not even mentioned underground poker games where I have been playing for many years.i quit tme abot 6 months ago and was wondering where that extra money i now have came from.now i know,can ugive a run down on those games.I know the money I won in the Sunday Million went there.^-^
Not sure what you're all on about, about the rake. 10% to a max of $8. What is it in Niagara or Windsor or anywhere in Ontario for that matter? Free drinks, free food doesn't help compensate for the extra couple bucks? Good service, clean facility, polite staff, chip runners, capable dealers that can deal more than 15 hands an hour on and on I could go about the differences compared to what we have back home in Ontario. Some of you say the cash game here cant be beat because of the rake is puzzling to me. Im just a recreational player, but Im up over a grand at the cash this week here. What would I be up with a better rake? Another 30 - 40 bucks?? I have had eight great meals, plenty of drinks.... Id say Im ahead of the game!!! Chopped two deep stack turbos this week as well, Loving the Playground!!
Why do you account for rakeback on one side but not food/drink on the other? Take the rakeback out of the calculations or add a flat $25-30 per session for a meal, a latte, and a couple of pops or perriers or whatever.
Right. So the $250 Frenzy is much of the way through Day 2 and it was a huge success. 1332 entries over the 6 Day 1s. Adds up to a total prize pool of $290,709 and $50K up top.
I did a little analysis on the re-entries and once again the facts don't bear out any of the hysteria around this issue. There were a small number of people who bought in to 4 or more days - under 3% in fact - and of this number only 3 players advanced to Day 2. The large majority of players only fired a single bullet in the event. Only 2 players qualified on two different starting days, and neither with a leading stack on the second day (and in one case the second day's stack was smaller).
The issues that people have are real, I get that, but evidence - actual numbers and actual behaviour in real events - doesn't support the critique of next-day re-entry events. At least at this buy-in level.
Meanwhile, someone who bought in for $250 has an absolute chance to win $50K tomorrow. That's pretty awesome.
OP updated with list of members that are headed for WPT Montreal, with approximate arrival. Playground threads seem to attract rake debates, including at 2+2, but to try to get back on topic again, is there anybody else going besides the five below?
Holy sh*t, the full moon remains. After I came back from WPT Philippines, the #1 forum bankroll builder (big wins for pkrfce9, Milo, djgolfcan, Bfillmaff, folded, Wett1012, me, etc.) had suddenly gone to hell. I just came back from WPT UK, and the #1 poker room in Canada has had its own social media disaster just before the WPT Montreal Main Event starts.
Fortunately, Playground senior management has realized that a war with chainsaw on 2+2/Facebook/Twitter is unwinnable and has issued the following apology:
If you want to discuss this or rake further, please create a new thread. Good luck to the members playing in WPT Montreal.
Do other card rooms rake 9-10% then take 3% out of the prize pool for the dealers? If so it was actually Kessler that was out of line and didn't do the math correctly or was he quibbling about ~1%? Oh, the irony.
Maybe playground could have pointed this out a bit nicer. Lolz. Your customer service needs a man like Bill. I hear he's not too busy right now.
Holy sh*t, the full moon remains. After I came back from WPT Philippines, the #1 forum bankroll builder (big wins for pkrfce9, Milo, djgolfcan, Bfillmaff, folded, Wett1012, me, etc.) had suddenly gone to hell. I just came back from WPT UK, and the #1 poker room in Canada has had its own social media disaster just before the WPT Montreal Main Event starts.
Fortunately, Playground senior management has realized that a war with chainsaw on 2+2/Facebook/Twitter is unwinnable and has issued the following apology:
If you want to discuss this or rake further, please create a new thread. Good luck to the members playing in WPT Montreal.
I have been following this argument for 3 years. Honestly, it was like $60 on $3300. Kessler thought he was getting par but had a minor taste of what we go through every trip south. Solution, show up with CAD which would have prob cost him more as well waste some time.
I had not noticed that this Third Annual WPT Montreal event is being filmed for TV broadcast. There is a full WPT/partypoker contingent there, including Tatjana Pasalic as the video hostess, Kara Scott, Tony "bond18" Dunst, two Royal Flush Girls, and two blonde partypoker hostesses.:h: Mike Sexton had told me during WPT UK that he will remain there for the £3K event this week, but he will be at the WPT Montreal final table to do commentary, probably with Lynn Gilmartin :h: and Vince Van Patten.
In Tatjana's video above, you can see some Ontario regs, including Sylvain. In the hand below, my friend (who is one of the 30 partypoker qualifiers along with actyper & T8urmoney) could have gotten a lot more chips if he had not raised all-in against Sylvain.
Sylvain Siebert Off To Rocky Start
Level 1: 50-100, ante
Picking up the action after a flop of
:ah :8s :5d,
Sylvain Siebert checks to Stephen Caplan who bets 1,000. Siebert check-raises to 3,500, Caplan calls to see the
:10c
turn and Siebert fires 6,500. Caplan raises all in and Siebert quickly folds his hand.
Caplan shows
:8d :8c
for a set of eights as he collects the pot.
Stephen Caplan - 42,000
Sylvain Siebert - 18,000[/QUOTE]
Comments
Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk
I'm very skeptical that a dealer at a 1-2 table would have been taking the wrong amount. Almost all of those dealers are extremely experienced and wouldn't make a rookie mistake like that.
Please make sure that you talk to a floor manager if anything like that happens. Obviously it's not in anyone's interest for that to occur.
Ditto . . . but you had to tie an onion to your belt, which was the style at that time.
Event 3 is similar, but it's a $225 + $25 with SIX starting days and a $200K guarantee. Whoa.
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I did teach him about the rake, but as usual he ignored what I told him which is why he's playing 1/2 with $14 rake! As nice as Playground is, I have never and will never play cash there with that rake structure! I've got my nephew coming over at the end of the month, and I'll have a three day coaching session with him, and hopefully he'll learn a few things that he'll apply going forward, otherwise he'll forever have the tag "fish" applied on his forehead!
Variance
But $8 is more then fair considering the casino is close to the same rake with far less offered.
If you are only a recreational player then yeah $6 or $8 dollars is no big deal when you play 3 or 4 times a year. That extra $100 - $150 is the cost of your "entertainment", but if you are like some of the others here who like myself consider poker to be a money making venture then $8 is just not ideal. Yeah there is not much difference winning $1000 or $970, but unfortunately for most of us, winning sessions are also accompanied by losing sessions.
Lets say you are a modest winner pre-rake and play 3 times a week only.
Let's use 2 BB/100 as your win rate which is very solid online where rake can be as low as 0.3% in my case with rakeback and loyalty programs.
At 2BB/100 at 1/2 if you were playing 20hrs a week (600 hands) you would gross approx $48 a session. Average that out for the entire year and your gross profit is somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500. Now lets assume you play 25% of the hands and contribute 1/3 of the rake on average in each of those pots. That's (30000 * 0.25 * $1.33 = $10,000).
Using an average pot size of only $40 you can see that the rake you will pay for the year is approx $10000, which means you will have a net profit after rake of $2500 - $10000 = MINUS $7500! So basically even though you are better than average, you will be out 7.5 Grand! Now I realize that the difference between $6 and $8 only applies to pots of $60 dollars or bigger, but if you play big ball poker like I do, then at least a third of those pots will be hit with an extra $0.67 a hand.... that means that out of the 7500 hands you played that year, 2500 were over $60 and therefore you paid approx $1500 more than you needed to!
I have not even added tipping!
Only 10% of players are true winning players and you have to be honest with yourself as to whether you can realistically win at more than 8BB/100 which is the minimum you will need to "break even" at Playground. I say to you that most of us are not, which is why most of the people on this forum, including Beefylogs, my nephew are crazy to play there on a regular basis... Once in a while for fun and entertainment; yeah go for it, but if you expect to make a profit there, you better be up in Blondefish or Mike Watson territory skill wise or you are lighting a match to your money!
Clueless post but thanks
I did a little analysis on the re-entries and once again the facts don't bear out any of the hysteria around this issue. There were a small number of people who bought in to 4 or more days - under 3% in fact - and of this number only 3 players advanced to Day 2. The large majority of players only fired a single bullet in the event. Only 2 players qualified on two different starting days, and neither with a leading stack on the second day (and in one case the second day's stack was smaller).
The issues that people have are real, I get that, but evidence - actual numbers and actual behaviour in real events - doesn't support the critique of next-day re-entry events. At least at this buy-in level.
Meanwhile, someone who bought in for $250 has an absolute chance to win $50K tomorrow. That's pretty awesome.
Playground Poker Club to Allen Kessler: Don't Like Us, Don't Play Here
Fortunately, Playground senior management has realized that a war with chainsaw on 2+2/Facebook/Twitter is unwinnable and has issued the following apology:
If you want to discuss this or rake further, please create a new thread. Good luck to the members playing in WPT Montreal.
Maybe playground could have pointed this out a bit nicer. Lolz. Your customer service needs a man like Bill. I hear he's not too busy right now.
I have been following this argument for 3 years. Honestly, it was like $60 on $3300. Kessler thought he was getting par but had a minor taste of what we go through every trip south. Solution, show up with CAD which would have prob cost him more as well waste some time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUzVDwuZHfc&list=UUEUGxpG2rkyJlCvr46PBr6g
In Tatjana's video above, you can see some Ontario regs, including Sylvain. In the hand below, my friend (who is one of the 30 partypoker qualifiers along with actyper & T8urmoney) could have gotten a lot more chips if he had not raised all-in against Sylvain.
Sylvain Siebert Off To Rocky Start
Level 1: 50-100, ante
Picking up the action after a flop of
:ah :8s :5d,
Sylvain Siebert checks to Stephen Caplan who bets 1,000. Siebert check-raises to 3,500, Caplan calls to see the
:10c
turn and Siebert fires 6,500. Caplan raises all in and Siebert quickly folds his hand.
Caplan shows
:8d :8c
for a set of eights as he collects the pot.
Stephen Caplan - 42,000
Sylvain Siebert - 18,000[/QUOTE]