HUGE beat and Brag!

QuinnerQuinner
in Brags, Beats & Variance
Alright there are a few things to know about this hand before commenting. Firstly I had been raising button ALOT, not because the blinds were tight or anything, but more because I was actually picking up a lot of legit hands every time on the BTN or CO. But I knew this usually aggravates players, and seeing as I've recently moved up (briefly) to take a shot at some 5 dollar sng's, I figured the players are paying a bit more attention at this level and will begin to re-raise me fairly light. I wasn't dissapointed.

PokerStars Game #28195088006: Tournament #163688393, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2009/05/14 16:13:58 ET
Table '163688393 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: koretake01 (1370 in chips)
Seat 2: Longrichard (1760 in chips)
Seat 4: kidpoker_uk (1745 in chips)
Seat 5: Forester118 (1470 in chips)
Seat 6: BernieVI (1450 in chips)
Seat 7: SS44 (3150 in chips)
Seat 8: Quinner777 (1170 in chips)
Seat 9: ucdAAA (1385 in chips)
koretake01: posts small blind 25
Longrichard: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Quinner777 [Jh Qd]
kidpoker_uk: folds
Forester118: folds
BernieVI: folds
SS44: folds
Quinner777: raises 100 to 150
ucdAAA: folds
koretake01: folds
Longrichard: raises 250 to 400
Quinner777: calls 250
*** FLOP *** [7c 4c 7h]
Longrichard: bets 850
Quinner777: calls 770 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (80) returned to Longrichard
*** TURN *** [7c 4c 7h] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [7c 4c 7h 6d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Longrichard: shows [Th Qs] (two pair, Tens and Sevens)
Quinner777: shows [Jh Qd] (a pair of Sevens)
Longrichard collected 2365 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2365 | Rake 0
Board [7c 4c 7h 6d Td]
Seat 1: koretake01 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Longrichard (big blind) showed [Th Qs] and won (2365) with two pair, Tens and Sevens
Seat 4: kidpoker_uk folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Forester118 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: BernieVI folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: SS44 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Quinner777 showed [Jh Qd] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 9: ucdAAA (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


I don't care what anyone says, this is a sick call lol. What level thinking is this...3rd? :P Such a bad beat too, ugh. F**kin 3 outer or running high cards, however you wanna look at it.

Comments

  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Countdown to busto.
  • cadillaccadillac
    Calling 3 bets with QJo is lighting money on fire.

    You got lucky and stationed a guy who was on a go and go but this play is not a profitable one.

    Your pre-flop options (ordered from good to bad):

    1. Fold
    2. 4 bet shove
    3. Time Out Fold
    4. Go for a piss (Time Out Fold)
    5. Call
  • GrahamGraham
    What did u put him on? J5? Pick a better spot IMO.
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    You are shooting yourself in the foot.

    1. You said you were aggro so your range will be way wider than villians.
    2. Hero calls with queen high for all your chips are not necessary this early on in a 5 buck tourney.
    3. When villian 3 bets you, QJ is a snap fold no matter what you put him on.


    Just a quick observation, it seems as though you are quite all over the map with your aggression/reads. You need to slow down a bit and get back to the basics of poker. Save the QJ hero moves when you are playing the Sunday million.

    You should easily beat 5.50 sit and goes just by playing straight forward poker. Obviously mix in a bit of stealing and make a couple of moves but a key to learn in the lower levels is when you face resistance like in this hand you ideally need to pick a better spot.

    Remember if you are going to tell a story it has to make sense. In this case your story didn't because there is no way you can call off your stack with QJ on a 477 board, even if he has ace high you are still drawing.
  • ChugsChugs
    Quinner i'll call it a sick call if you say you were certain that you were actually ahead.

    otherwise you just called yourself all-in on a flop you completely wiffed on against a pre-flop raiser who except for a total bluff is beating you with Ax, Kx, any pocket pair or might even be ahead with a flush draw, all of which are far more likely than his actual holding
  • QuinnerQuinner
    Yea you all make good points. I always get a bit carried away. To summarize, no Chugs i was not 100% certain I'd be ahead but I thought there was a really good probability that he could be doing this with any two cards. However if you consider his range to be very wide (which I did) then I'm giving it a lower percentage chance that he's actually doing this with anything decent. The push on the flop confirms that his hand is either spectacularly amazing, and he's playing it horribly....or that he's trying to maximize his fold equity (which is much more likely). Therefore I feel that I will be ahead in this situation more than I am behind. Maybe your right, I don't need to worry about this kind of stuff yet, but it still felt good to think about it, analyze the most likely scenario, flip the cards and see that I was right. I also don't see how I can play this hand any other way when he re-raises me I felt like he was raising light. Then the dry board hits and he goes all in?? Thats when I know his hand can't be that good. I think I'm taking a bigger risk by 4 betting pf because I wasn't certain his hand strength untill I see what he does on the flop. Anyway, I have a feeling no ones going to agree with me on this one, so I'll try and play the 5'ers more straightforward. I still don't think it was an unprofitable call as played but your all making more money than me lol so I think I'll try and end this little ego trip I'm on and take your advice :)
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Dup./
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Quinner wrote: »
    The push on the flop confirms that his hand is either spectacularly amazing, and he's playing it horribly....or that he's trying to maximize his fold equity (which is much more likely). Therefore I feel that I will be ahead in this situation more than I am behind. :)

    You are going to be a long term loser until you change your mind on this.

    Want proof? Get yourself a version of Pokerstove, then assign villain a super "light" range, say 22+, J10+.
  • cadillaccadillac
    I think you are missing the point Quinner.



    Yes. You were correct in this situation. You caught our villain at the bottom of his range and had him AI and drawing to 3 outs. Nice read. Nice call.



    What I am trying to say here is this: There may be room for this type of play once you have moved up significantly in stakes. But only once in a very blue moon. Don't go looking for spots to call off your stack when you are only beating the bottom of his range. Most of the time he is going to have a better hand and you are going to call off as dog. This will not make you money in the long run.


    You will read threads on here with hero calls and other advanced plays from posters. Read them, ask questions and understand them. Don't go using them at $5 SNGS or at your regular stakes.


    You can beat these levels with a tight solid game.

    1. Play pots in position with solid starting hands. Hands that have good value.
    2. Small suited connectors and other marginal hands have very little value in these SNG's because stacks are just too short to play them profitably.
    3. Learn to control pot sizes and accumulate chips.
    4. Learn how to push bot in the late stages.
    5. Learn the stack size you need for re-stealing and when it will be profitable to do so.
    6. Understand that you can shove your stack in the middle the first 100 times in a tournament, never get called and never get beat out. Every time you call off your stack there is a possibility of you getting felted (even with AA).
    7. Learn how to play a big stack by bullying the medium stacks.



    If you concentrated on these points alone you would be profitable at $5 SNGS and below.


    If you don't have a full understanding of any the above points, just ask.
  • LanterneRougeLanterneRouge
    There's not much to add. +1 to all of the above responses. That hand should have ended for you with the pre-flop re-raise.

    Let me ask though ... how many seconds did you take before calling the pre-flop re-raise? How many seconds did you take before calling the post-flop all-in? My guess is 1 or less pre-flop, 2 or less post-flop. If so, I'd suggest you take your hand off the mouse (literally) before your turn / between streets and think things out a little longer ... and make sure you spend at least as much time searching for reasons to fold as you do searching for reasons to call.
  • MonteroyMonteroy
    Both of cadillac's lists are quite good.

    Kind of a simple non-hindsight results oriented way of looking at it is this.

    I you were prepared to call off his stack on a flop like that with QJ then you should be prepared to go all in preflop, since you can at least get some potential value via fold equity with the 4 bet shove that may even get hands like K rag that are a bit ahead of you to fold as well.

    Kind of reminds me when players with about 6-8 BBs limp with a soso hand like QJ but then call a raise all in pre-flop ater their limp. Assuming this is not some odd trap play I do not understand with that hand, why not just shove then instead.

    Not exactly the same thing, but similar general hand in terms of structure.
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