A warranted call? *beat*

DennisG

First off...I have been on the table with Clements for almost 2 hours..and paying special attention to his play...I am pretty sure he has squat here...he raised, but it wasn't his normal type of raise..it just didn't feel good to me and I was sure I was ahead..

Tell me where I went wrong.. Yeah..A 10 is suspect, but a lot of weak aces have been showing..

Full Tilt Poker Game #8078058614: $65,000 Guarantee (61158373), Table 8 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:43:35 ET - 2008/09/14
Seat 1: leoky (21,142)
Seat 2: Scott Clements (13,297)
Seat 3: remedy444 (19,459)
Seat 4: ElMastermind (10,445)
Seat 5: nickkaka (13,613)
Seat 6: Waters81 (15,359)
Seat 7: Nocturnick (20,072)
Seat 8: Bcboy72 (6,688)
Seat 9: castellimich (16,925)
leoky antes 50
Scott Clements antes 50
remedy444 antes 50
ElMastermind antes 50
nickkaka antes 50
Waters81 antes 50
Nocturnick antes 50
Bcboy72 antes 50
castellimich antes 50
Nocturnick posts the small blind of 200
Bcboy72 posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bcboy72 [As Ts]
castellimich folds
leoky folds
Scott Clements raises to 1,105
remedy444 folds
ElMastermind has 15 seconds left to act
ElMastermind folds
nickkaka folds
Waters81 folds
Nocturnick folds
Bcboy72 calls 705
*** FLOP *** [3c Jc 8c]
Bcboy72 checks
Scott Clements checks
*** TURN *** [3c Jc 8c] [9h]
Bcboy72 bets 1,200
Scott Clements has 15 seconds left to act
Scott Clements calls 1,200
*** RIVER *** [3c Jc 8c 9h] [4s]
Bcboy72 has 15 seconds left to act
Bcboy72 bets 1,200
Scott Clements has 15 seconds left to act
Scott Clements calls 1,200
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Bcboy72 shows [As Ts] Ace Jack high
Scott Clements shows [Kh 3h] a pair of Threes
Scott Clements wins the pot (7,660) with a pair of Threes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7,660 | Rake 0
Board: [3c Jc 8c 9h 4s]
Seat 1: leoky folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Scott Clements showed [Kh 3h] and won (7,660) with a pair of Threes
Seat 3: remedy444 folded before the Flop
Seat 4: ElMastermind folded before the Flop
Seat 5: nickkaka folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Waters81 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Nocturnick (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: Bcboy72 (big blind) showed [As Ts] and lost with Ace Jack high
Seat 9: castellimich folded before the Flop

BigChrisEl

If you think he has nothing then re-pop him pre-flop.

You instead just called and decided to play a difficult hand (A-10) out of position against a pro.

Monteroy

I pretty much hate how you played every street :P


If you have that type of read against him then either reraise preflop or if you want to wait for a better spot then fold preflop.

I have no idea what your game plan was here post flop. Check then a tiny turn bet with basically nothing against I assume a loose player. Not really sure what that was to be honest.

The river bet was so small that it forced horrible hands that beat you to call due to pot odds. Best way to describe that is a reverse value bet.

I kind of know what happened, you genuinely felt like you were ahead but did not pull the trigger and in the end created a bit of a mess for yourself and lost 5000 chips instead of winning a smaller pot preflop (assuming he folds his K3, if he cannot then oh well).

If you really think you have a read on a player then go for it.

DennisG

Hehe..Thanks Mont, but that is what I was looking for:D And yeah, it makes sense.

Question though...you said "Check then a tiny turn bet"..1200 into a 2860 pot..if he has any type of draw, he needs 3.5-1 or so to make the call doesn't he? When the 9 hit..there was the possible straight on the board if I were playing 10Q (lol)

I am presuming my weak river bet (which I thought looked like value) he thought maybe a missed flush draw?

Pantsonfire

If your chip stack (which I can't read) is 6,6xx, then you really gotta think about pushing here. Everything is right for a push. M is in trouble, goofy pf raise, no one left to act, out of position and fairly solid cards.

All bets made in this hand were too small for their purpose. And the purposes aren't clear either.

You are OOP with squadouche against an obviously loose player, or worse, a player with a read on you. Okay so you paid 705 to see a flop with good odds, heads up. You have nothing on the flop and could even be drawing dead or against a draw to will take the checkmark with one card. Check/fold all the way (except maybe call a small river which could be a busted flush draw).

Take a look at how you play in position verses OOP. Be honest, if it is close to the same, you are doing something wrong.

Pantsonfire

BigChrisEl wrote: »

You instead just called and decided to play a difficult hand (A-10) out of position against a pro.

Good one....

Wetts1012

Pantsonfire wrote: »

Good one....

Not to hijack - but I think Clements is one of the only FTP red pros with any credibility in terms of consistent results.

I had some FTP pro named Lynnette Chan sit at a 1-2 table with me yesterday and thought whO?

Kristy

I don't really think you're deep enough to call 700+ oop with ats. Definitely a raise or fold. (I lean towards a raise, with the info you supplied)

I might catch hell from the others for this..

but I think your opponent pretty much HAS to call 1200 on the river with ANY pair, your story just doesn't make sense..though I'd put you on something more like ace high flush draw.

edit: read the others now...agreement!

****I have a side question for Pantsonfire (I hope you don't mind OP) When you're calling the 705, what exactly are you comfortable hitting-with a reasonable expectation of getting paid off properly?

DennisG

Thanks for all the input! I can see the error of my ways;)

Kristy, I am a little disappointed though, I expected more 'color' from your post;) lol

cadillac

Kristy_Sea wrote: »

I don't really think you're deep enough to call 700+ oop with ats. Definitely a raise or fold. (I lean towards a raise, with the info you supplied)

Your stack is a little bit awkward in this spot. Here are your options:

Call - This is sucky because you have a hand that is really going to be tough to play OOP. On most flops you won't have a clue where you stand until you put more money in the pot. By the time you put more money in the pot you will have half your stack in there and then it is not like you can fold and leave yourself with like 5BB (effective).


Raise - Much better than a call IMO. But, if you raise here you have to shove unless you are going to do something weird like min-raise pre-flop and then pot the flop with the rest of your stack. But by doing this you are turning your hand into a bluff so why not pick a better spot to run a bluff. He is in EP here so he should not be raising junk (even though he turned up with it)!


Fold - Probably the best option here unless you have a read that he is kinda spazzy. Against a standard opening range from someone in EP you are crushed.


Remember what you should be thinking when you play poker. You are either looking to get value from hands you are beating or folds from hands that you are behind.

The only hand that an EP raiser may fold against a shove here that has you beat is AJ maybe AQ but not likely. A9 is gonna fold for sure unless he is a dummy. You may get some small pairs to fold here but overall you are killed by anything he calls a shove with and he calls a shove with most of his opening range. (Once again, I know he turned up with junk)

Kristy_Sea wrote: »

I think your opponent pretty much HAS to call 1200 on the river with ANY, your story just doesn't make sense..though I'd put you on something more like ace high flush draw.

What she said. Your river bluff has no teeth my friend. He doesn't have to be right here very often for this call to be profitable.