BEAT - How does he make this call?

Graham

Ok, so I call out of position preflop and try to represent the str8 and flush draw on the flop assuming original raiser is on a str8 draw... but instead he calls me with top pair and chases the str8....sure enough he wins.... what would you do differently here:

PokerStars Game #17302061033: Omaha Pot Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/05/09 - 01:54:08 (ET)
Table 'Jole' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: juan187 ($222 in chips)
Seat 2: closemaster ($167 in chips)
Seat 3: RifePot ($113.70 in chips)
Seat 4: pitreAA ($59.30 in chips)
Seat 5: whitford28 ($171.55 in chips)
Seat 6: Chensta ($82 in chips)
juan187: posts small blind $1
closemaster: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to closemaster [Ac Tc Kh 9d]
RifePot: calls $2
pitreAA: folds
whitford28: raises $7 to $9
Chensta: folds
juan187: calls $8
closemaster: calls $7
RifePot: calls $7
*** FLOP *** [5c 6d 3c]
juan187: checks
closemaster: checks
RifePot: checks
whitford28: bets $34.20
juan187: folds
closemaster: raises $102.60 to $136.80
RifePot: folds
whitford28: raises $25.75 to $162.55 and is all-in
closemaster: calls $21.20 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [5c 6d 3c] [6s]
*** RIVER *** [5c 6d 3c 6s] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
closemaster: shows [Ac Tc Kh 9d] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
whitford28: shows [7c 6h 2h 8d] (three of a kind, Sixes)
whitford28 collected $349 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $352 | Rake $3
Board [5c 6d 3c 6s As]
Seat 1: juan187 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: closemaster (big blind) showed [Ac Tc Kh 9d] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Seat 3: RifePot folded on the Flop
Seat 4: pitreAA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: whitford28 showed [7c 6h 2h 8d] and won ($349) with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 6: Chensta (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

GTA Poker

That's why at these limits I don't represent anything...they aren't going to fold. I wouldn't stack a naked flush draw, I'd wait for a better spot. As it played out it wasn't a bad play given his hand, but given his range it's not a great spot to shove.

Graham

When he made the massive raise preflop I figured he couldn't have hit that flop in any way, at most a draw... I just couldn't believe he called with that.

GTA Poker

ya but 70% of players are shoving KK with spades there, or even KK without any other draw etc. I wouldn't put him on that at all, but my point is most players aren't laying down a huge pair in this game.

pkrfce9

is it possible he has read some of your hand histories? (pause)

dunno graham. it seems the players at this level are very bad. i wish i had the stomach for the game.

why not multi-table and patiently wait for a BIG hand to get your money in against some of these idiots? you seem to be showing a lot of marginal hands where you are losing some big pots.

waltsfriend

I think it is pretty obvious how he makes the call. Look at his pre-flop hand selection. The only way in his mind this flop could have been any better is if there were two hearts on board. How could he possibly be playing for anything other than a straight with that starting hand and he got a bonus because he hit a pair on the flop.

I think people playing Omaha at this level consider it a drawing game, and only see their outs and not what their opponent has. He also may have wondered what you possibly hit on that board and not considered that you were betting on a draw yourself. Maybe he put you on a big pair and thought he had more outs than he actually did. I think it is probably pretty hard to bluff someone at this level on the flop.

Monteroy

The $25 to $100 buy in games on Crypto have a couple of players who play like that. The board could be AAKQJ with 3 spades and they will still call and or bet you with trip aces. Some of them are passive which makes it a lot easier, some are aggro manics which make it much harder, especially with decent but not utterly insane draws (ie: nut flush draw only in theory as usually top pair will not matter much).

The hand you posted is pretty much what I call the nightmare scenario against the loose bad aggro Omaha maniac, since you have a decent hand but you are not really crushing anything. Even the situation you posted is only 50/50, and I generally look for better situations against that type of player (also why I like hi lo more since those guys love a good quartering ).


I think your frustration is generated from not creating enough of an edge when confronting the loose maniac. Trying to analyze/interpret his play in terms of what he puts you on, hand ranges etc may be an exercise in futility. He may just like betting a lot.

GTA Poker

waltsfriend wrote: »

I think people playing Omaha at this level consider it a drawing game,

it is

Monteroy

Yes it is, but not all draws are equal. Play enough hi lo and you will see every day many people heads up drawing to a low only (sometimes not even the nut low) which if they are fortunate enough to hit they will then split the pot (unless they are quartered).

Villain's hand here while not the worst draw in the world is hardly a great one either.