Beat: Hand from the $2600 Main Event, Venetian Deep Stack Extravaganza
Taken from my blog entry. Please feel sorry for me. This is the biggest tournament I've ever coughed up the cash to play in. Ty.
100/200 a25, I have about 22K, average is probably around 18K or so.
OK, here's the hand of the tournament for me. I'm going to spend a long time on it, because basically I was on super monkey tilt after it. I can come back from a lot of things, but to have this go down in the biggest buy-in event of my life... well, I guess I'm not good enough to fade that, as you will see.
UTG (the guy who raised 25o after a limper earlier, wasn't re-raised, and then flopped two pair and felted the guy with with the pocket queens) raises UTG to 900. He starts this hand with about 10K, I start with about 22K. Folded to me in BB with QQ. I re-raise to 3200 total. He shoves for 7K more, and I call.
He has 4d5d.
Flop: K98 rainbow, no diamonds. I am a 97% favourite to win this hand.
Turn: 7
River: 6
I lose to his straight. Instead of having about 33K, I am left with 10,500 after this hand.
I really can't describe to you the feeling I had after losing that pot, but if you play poker, you already know what I'm talking about. I've felt it before, but never like that, and I think it's due to the $2600 buy-in. I simply can't handle losing to such a terrible play/beat at buy-in levels that I care about. The $2600 isn't going to make or break me... I am up about 25K so far in 2008, not bragging, not bragging, just trying to put it into perspective... but I take the money I win in poker seriously. Some people don't treat their winnings with respect. They look at it as other people's money/money they wouldn't have had anyway, etc. So they piss it away. Not me. I look at it as MY money the second I win it, and I try my damndest to hold onto it, and to make it grow.
With this in mind, losing that pot was probably about the worst I've ever felt playing poker. And it was at that moment that I decided that tournament buy-in's of over $1500 are just not for me. Not yet, and maybe not ever. I'll try to satellite my way into big events, sure, but I'm not shelling out over 2K so some donk can make a terrible, terrible play and hit his miracle cards on me. On that note, let's talk about why his shove was so bad:
I don't mind shoving with hands like 4d5d, if the conditions are right. In my opinion, this is when it's not terrible to make the big all-in bluff with a trash hand:
1) You are shortstacked, and your opponent is not. You have enough chips, though, to make him fold a wide range of hands.
2) You have a lot of chips, and your opponent does not, but is not shortstacked.
3) You have a solid table image.
4) You are against a player who has been fairly significantly out of line.
5) Your shove is big enough, relative to the pot size and to your opponent's stack, to get your opponent to fold a wide range of hands, including a few of the big ones (TT to QQ, AJ, AQ)
6) There are more conditions, but those are the big ones IMO.
His shove was terrible, for a whole bunch of reasons. He had a terrible table image. He wasn't shortstacked at all relative to the blinds, having 10K and playing 100/200 a25. I had a fairly tight image, despite a couple of small-ish moves. I was re-raising out of the blinds against a UTG raiser. His shove was about 7K more to me to call, and the pot was about 6400 when I was faced with that decision. Given my stack size (double his), I call even if I'm bizarrely making a move with air in this spot. I call with TJo, but it's highly unlikely I'm trying a re-steal, from the blinds, against a UTG raiser, after effectively committing myself to call his shove by re-raising to 3200. In short, this is about the worst all-in play I've ever seen, which makes the beat that much sicker.
I'm sorry. I've been whining. I'm sorry. But I feel better.
Anyway, I didn't say anything to him. The table went a little crazy after the river came a six, I just got up and walked away and left the dealer to pay him off out of my stack.
100/200 a25, I have about 22K, average is probably around 18K or so.
OK, here's the hand of the tournament for me. I'm going to spend a long time on it, because basically I was on super monkey tilt after it. I can come back from a lot of things, but to have this go down in the biggest buy-in event of my life... well, I guess I'm not good enough to fade that, as you will see.
UTG (the guy who raised 25o after a limper earlier, wasn't re-raised, and then flopped two pair and felted the guy with with the pocket queens) raises UTG to 900. He starts this hand with about 10K, I start with about 22K. Folded to me in BB with QQ. I re-raise to 3200 total. He shoves for 7K more, and I call.
He has 4d5d.
Flop: K98 rainbow, no diamonds. I am a 97% favourite to win this hand.
Turn: 7
River: 6
I lose to his straight. Instead of having about 33K, I am left with 10,500 after this hand.
I really can't describe to you the feeling I had after losing that pot, but if you play poker, you already know what I'm talking about. I've felt it before, but never like that, and I think it's due to the $2600 buy-in. I simply can't handle losing to such a terrible play/beat at buy-in levels that I care about. The $2600 isn't going to make or break me... I am up about 25K so far in 2008, not bragging, not bragging, just trying to put it into perspective... but I take the money I win in poker seriously. Some people don't treat their winnings with respect. They look at it as other people's money/money they wouldn't have had anyway, etc. So they piss it away. Not me. I look at it as MY money the second I win it, and I try my damndest to hold onto it, and to make it grow.
With this in mind, losing that pot was probably about the worst I've ever felt playing poker. And it was at that moment that I decided that tournament buy-in's of over $1500 are just not for me. Not yet, and maybe not ever. I'll try to satellite my way into big events, sure, but I'm not shelling out over 2K so some donk can make a terrible, terrible play and hit his miracle cards on me. On that note, let's talk about why his shove was so bad:
I don't mind shoving with hands like 4d5d, if the conditions are right. In my opinion, this is when it's not terrible to make the big all-in bluff with a trash hand:
1) You are shortstacked, and your opponent is not. You have enough chips, though, to make him fold a wide range of hands.
2) You have a lot of chips, and your opponent does not, but is not shortstacked.
3) You have a solid table image.
4) You are against a player who has been fairly significantly out of line.
5) Your shove is big enough, relative to the pot size and to your opponent's stack, to get your opponent to fold a wide range of hands, including a few of the big ones (TT to QQ, AJ, AQ)
6) There are more conditions, but those are the big ones IMO.
His shove was terrible, for a whole bunch of reasons. He had a terrible table image. He wasn't shortstacked at all relative to the blinds, having 10K and playing 100/200 a25. I had a fairly tight image, despite a couple of small-ish moves. I was re-raising out of the blinds against a UTG raiser. His shove was about 7K more to me to call, and the pot was about 6400 when I was faced with that decision. Given my stack size (double his), I call even if I'm bizarrely making a move with air in this spot. I call with TJo, but it's highly unlikely I'm trying a re-steal, from the blinds, against a UTG raiser, after effectively committing myself to call his shove by re-raising to 3200. In short, this is about the worst all-in play I've ever seen, which makes the beat that much sicker.
I'm sorry. I've been whining. I'm sorry. But I feel better.
Anyway, I didn't say anything to him. The table went a little crazy after the river came a six, I just got up and walked away and left the dealer to pay him off out of my stack.
Comments
i agree with your thought that you shouldn't be buying into tourneys this big. for me, if it was a $22 sng i'd be laughing my ass off at this guy and i want to feel that way at whatever stakes i'm taking these bad beats.
When those beats happend when you're playing good poker, have good reads, know you're better than most players and BAM this happens... it just trows you back.
I've never played even close to those buyins since I just don't have the BR to do it, but on a minimized scale, boy I know what it feels like!
JJ - 19%
QQ - 81%
45d - 22%
QQ - 78%
As you noted, you had a 97% chance to win the hand after the flop. Even if you got all your chips in on the flop, there is not much you can do when runner, runner looks you up. Chalk it up to variance and move on.
Same thing happened to me last week. I got all my chips in the middle ahead, and this clown hits runner, runner for a flush. As long as you get your chips in ahead, the rest is out of your hands.
With a $2600 buyin Devo expected better play than 4d5d shoving over the top of a reraise for the reasons he outlined.
Tough break devo, but you missed the most important reason for the shove:
They were soooooted
Also with the number of players that actually pay their way in as opposed to satty in is dropping, so you get more bad players in larger buyins that luckboxed their way through a satty.
I seem to do that quite often. I guess the moral of the story is there are donkeys at all levels. I would think the level of play should be better in these higher buy-in tournaments. Now if you won the hand, as you should, would you still be thinking this? Probably not, you would have collected the chips, realized he was a moron for making the call and moved on. I wouldn't second guess your decision to play in these tournaments because one guy sucked out on you.
That is probably one of the worst beats I have heard in a while. I know it is hard to look at it like this now, but if he keeps making these stupid plays he won't get anywhere as a poker player. In the long run if you continue playing how you have been playing it will be much more +ev for you in the future.
Plays like this in big-buyin events really piss me off when they pay off, but the other 9/10 where they don't pay off, these are the kinda players you want at your table.
I think right now the most important thing for you to do is take a breather, maybe switch up to Omaha or something for a week or so, just to get your mind off the hand, then come back and make that money back!
Good luck!
Graham
I don't know about this. I think when that flop comes J high, he's still going to be pretty damn pissed.
in most people's eyes, calling all-in with JJ is likely more rationale.
What would have been interesting is if the villian called the raise and went all-in on the flop representing the king. Now if the hero folds and villian shows the 45d bluff, now he is the poker player. Unlikely hero would call the all-in with the king on board.
Tough one D...at least you broke even at the end of the trip