Beat / Bad form!
Hey
Okay... playing in a $20 home SNG.. 9 players.. fairly late into it.. like maybe an hour and a half when this happens:
Two callers, i'm in the SB with Q10dd and BB checks, flop comes down QJ4
In SB I bet out, 2k into a pot of about 2300 (big bets are the only thing respected).
I'm talking with another player joking around (we've had some history at this table - first time playing him), and he's clearly the most dangerous player at the table to me. I say something to the effect of "You don't get all crazy or nothing now!" while the BB folds and villain says:
"Crazy? Yea.. hahaha All In right?!" and people go "WOW"
Villain looks down confused and says "Oh shit! I didn't know it was on me! I was kidding!!" but some of the others (quite rightly) say that it's binding.
Folded back to me, and I say "Look it's just a fun home game guys, let him take it back, it's not a big deal", Villain kinda shrugs his shoulders, and looks to the others who all say "no no, it's binding".
I once again suggest he take it back, they shoot it down again. I say, "Well, sorry, I don't wanna be a prick, but I gotta get chips too" and call.
Villain INSTANTLY yells "GOOD" and tables QJ.
Okay, sure I shouldn't have called off my chips with TP only.. but the villain is clearly an experienced player, and pulled this...
I shrugged my shoulders, and said something to the effect of "well, clearly you need the $20 more than I do, and that's just HORRIBLE etiquette" and thanked the host (family member of mine), but said that I was going to leave since I was the first one out and not wanting to wait that long for another game to start.
The Villain actually came up to me as I was getting ready to leave and apologized, claiming he "doesn't normally do that" and that he had me pegged as the "only dangerous player at the table to <him>" and that no hard feelings kinda thing.
Wondering what ya'll would do / think?
Mark
Okay... playing in a $20 home SNG.. 9 players.. fairly late into it.. like maybe an hour and a half when this happens:
Two callers, i'm in the SB with Q10dd and BB checks, flop comes down QJ4
In SB I bet out, 2k into a pot of about 2300 (big bets are the only thing respected).
I'm talking with another player joking around (we've had some history at this table - first time playing him), and he's clearly the most dangerous player at the table to me. I say something to the effect of "You don't get all crazy or nothing now!" while the BB folds and villain says:
"Crazy? Yea.. hahaha All In right?!" and people go "WOW"
Villain looks down confused and says "Oh shit! I didn't know it was on me! I was kidding!!" but some of the others (quite rightly) say that it's binding.
Folded back to me, and I say "Look it's just a fun home game guys, let him take it back, it's not a big deal", Villain kinda shrugs his shoulders, and looks to the others who all say "no no, it's binding".
I once again suggest he take it back, they shoot it down again. I say, "Well, sorry, I don't wanna be a prick, but I gotta get chips too" and call.
Villain INSTANTLY yells "GOOD" and tables QJ.
Okay, sure I shouldn't have called off my chips with TP only.. but the villain is clearly an experienced player, and pulled this...
I shrugged my shoulders, and said something to the effect of "well, clearly you need the $20 more than I do, and that's just HORRIBLE etiquette" and thanked the host (family member of mine), but said that I was going to leave since I was the first one out and not wanting to wait that long for another game to start.
The Villain actually came up to me as I was getting ready to leave and apologized, claiming he "doesn't normally do that" and that he had me pegged as the "only dangerous player at the table to <him>" and that no hard feelings kinda thing.
Wondering what ya'll would do / think?
Mark
Comments
You handled it perfectly. Hopefully the least skilled player at the table went runner-runner with a flush draw or something against him.
far more extreme shooting goes on all the time and some people don't even know what they are doing is wrong. i hope a 'certain person' i was playing poker with last night, who posts on here a lot, puts up his story on angle shooting for the forum to discuss...
Pkrfce9, sounds like there's a story to tell, everybody likes a good poker story, don't leave us hanging.
THere's no chance the other players at the table were colluding... 1/2 of them were my family members...
Mark
Agreed, people say things at the table all the time to induce a call, or a check or whatever. You should have known this was at least possible, and planned accordingly.
This example was just a little more hollywooded more than others. Side note, I've had similar circumstances where a person 'accidently' goes all in and I've felt like I had him and called only to run into the nuts. It happens, you deal and move on.
I'm not asking for advice on calling with top pair no kicker... I'm just asking about his behaviour / choices. Personally, I know that if he pulled that at many of the local games, I can't imagine him being welcomed back. It's such poor form / etiquette. I guess I'd like to hear from some of the regular hosts (Zithal, beanie, etc) for their opinion too.
I know it's not illegal, I know he "caught" me... and although technically nothing broke a rule... ya know?
Mark
Ahh kk, I agree with the premise that it's probably not a good play to ensure your invitation back. I used to play in a game that had 'that' guy. He was there 2 games and then we just simply stopped calling him when we got together.
First, did he actually say "all in", because you post that he said "all-in right?". Even in our games, people will use the word all-in without it meaning they are all-in (such as "would you call an all-in?"). From the sounds of the banter between you, I'm not sure this should have been considered binding.
However, if it was binding, then you (rather then him) is actually in the wrong, since you are suggesting changing the rules ("let him take it back").
Either way, this would be a very subjective thing. As TD I would probably give a loose warning/request to be more careful of what he's saying/doing, but I don't think much more can/should be done.
From an ethical point of view, the guys obviously a tool, so I'd take a note of that for future (both on and off the felt). The way you handled it was classy and well-done, although I'm sure it was a bit painful.
Basically, he hollywooded me, sure... but he acted in a manner as if he hadn't seen the BB fold, as if he was goofing around, and gave one of those "oh fuck me" looks when they were claiming it was binding.
Mark
However, backing up a step, you did categorize him as a dangerous player. If you think about our games and the players involved, even when they are involved in side conversations and seemingly not interested, how often do they really not pay attention to a hand? Barring the times when they already count themselves out of the hand and are prepared to auto-muck, despite feigning a lackk of interest in the hand they always know what's going on (yourself included). I think you may have forgotten that it's unlikely a decent player would rarely make this type of mistake, and should've smelled something...
On yours, well..I wish it would happen to me. You'd have no idea how much fun I'd have making fun of the guy who needs $20 bucks that badly. I'm there all the way to game two, slipping sugar packets into his coat pocket and crumpling up newspaper for him to shove under his shirt 'for insulation when he goes to sleep on the streets', asking him everything I ever wanted to know about crack whores and squeegie laws.
money well spent.
but it would have never happened to me because that guy would have had his chips out of the pot..or been forced to admit that he wanted them in before I'd continued.
So technically your fault for not insisting that he be allowed to take them back. This guy is a douche, but I'm pretty sure you didn't fight it as viciously as you could because you thought you were good.
LAUGH MY FUCKING ASS OFF at all those (including you) talking about rules in a $20 home game with family.
Do you hand out a time penalty when your Nana talks about the hand in progress, or ship the pot to slow uncle Jerry when little Sue says 'flush' on the river and mucks her cards too soon before he's had a chance to show his losing j-3o that he called a raise with (no you grab Sue's cards out..if you really want to see)
Seriously, the guy's a douche for angle-shooting..but you and your family are douches for insisting that it is binding. Shame on all of you.
Mark
Your reads suck so hard it obv doesn't take more than one guy to completely school you. Put your pants back on and comfort yourself in the fact that you paid the least amount in gas to get to the game - even though girls point and laugh as you drive by.
not happy with Villian in this case also, but it happens all to often.
General consensus seems to be that I got trapped, suck it up.... I guess I just became too accustomed to decent folk playing an honest game.....
Clearly I should be going to casino's more often.
Mark
You're an angle-shooter/unethical person as well.
At a $20 home game that I'm attending, heads roll before that guy loses his stack to an honest mistake OR he admits that he wants his chips in.
You didn't do it because you weren't brave enough to fight the majority OR you wanted the money in-thinking you were good. Both of those things are pretty detestable traits that you, a very overall loveable guy, should correct.
but as it stands you got what you deserve, and I'm sure the angle shooter will too eventually.
I like to think that outside of the rules there still lie unwritten rules that most people follow. It sounds to me that most here wouldn't do it themselves however don't necessarily think it is against 'the rules'. I would say, it obviously isn't against the written rules however is crossing the unwritten ones.
Acting out of turn on purpose (seen it a few times) is one that always gets me pissed off. I agree with BBC when it comes to Angleshooters. Not much you can do though except shake your head.
stp
Sorry Kristy... I still have to disagree... for no better an excuse than "you weren't there" and therefore didn't know / see the entire situation.
Regardless, we can hash this out on MSN rather than sully the forum.
Mark
Suuullyyy! Suuulllly!
Drama queen!
Mark
you read all my msn comments already and then still essentially posted "I guess that guy was a just a creep, gg me.."
And play more in casinos??? Yeah, cuz stuff like that NEVER happens in a casino!?!? I mean, the guy said "All In"....AND he was obligated to that in-turn, verbal declaration...AND he had you beat...!! I have never, ever seen such in a casino.
/sarcasm
ask yourself why you play with family? If the answer is 'sfobv- to ship Grammy's pension to MEEEEE!' then proceed with this absurd 'he did nothing wrong' thread
but since we know you play with family/friends for social reasons and to have fun: your family became miserable failures by
a: having a guy who would do that
b: considering it binding
c: and you didn't fall far from the tree by calling and not walking away from the game the moment it became clear that objectives a/b were not being met.
you want rules and $ go to a casino
you want comraderie and togetherness you don't slit 'QJ's' throat for an honest mistake.
you have to define family home game.
such as, have fun, not to really play poker, but just have fun.
or have fun, but i'm shooting to win.
i'm done.