1/2 Nl
Ok....what's your play.
I picked this table simply cause they were loose PF and passive post flop
PokerStars Game #8505331683: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2007/02/18 - 15:58:11 (ET)
Table 'Pikelner II' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Stelvask ($199.35 in chips)
Seat 2: Tatianna7777 ($48 in chips)
Seat 3: Kvitne ($47 in chips)
Seat 4: zmanzman ($380.90 in chips)
Seat 5: MrBIond ($450.10 in chips)
Seat 6: Wolffhound ($205.65 in chips)
Seat 7: Ghisi ($279 in chips)
Seat 8: UnclePauly04 ($212.60 in chips)
Seat 9: broonster ($73 in chips)
broonster: posts small blind $1
Stelvask: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Wolffhound [Jh Jd]
Tatianna7777: folds
Kvitne: folds
zmanzman: raises $4 to $6
MrBIond: folds
Wolffhound: raises $8 to $14
Ghisi: folds
UnclePauly04: folds
broonster: folds
Stelvask: folds
zmanzman: calls $8
*** FLOP *** [Qc Jc Kh]
zmanzman: bets $10
Now....i actually put zmanzman on a big hand. AQ or AK, no monsters (ie- KK, QQ) based on his previous play.
He leads out, you hit your set....where do you go given the flop that came down?
I picked this table simply cause they were loose PF and passive post flop
PokerStars Game #8505331683: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2007/02/18 - 15:58:11 (ET)
Table 'Pikelner II' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Stelvask ($199.35 in chips)
Seat 2: Tatianna7777 ($48 in chips)
Seat 3: Kvitne ($47 in chips)
Seat 4: zmanzman ($380.90 in chips)
Seat 5: MrBIond ($450.10 in chips)
Seat 6: Wolffhound ($205.65 in chips)
Seat 7: Ghisi ($279 in chips)
Seat 8: UnclePauly04 ($212.60 in chips)
Seat 9: broonster ($73 in chips)
broonster: posts small blind $1
Stelvask: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Wolffhound [Jh Jd]
Tatianna7777: folds
Kvitne: folds
zmanzman: raises $4 to $6
MrBIond: folds
Wolffhound: raises $8 to $14
Ghisi: folds
UnclePauly04: folds
broonster: folds
Stelvask: folds
zmanzman: calls $8
*** FLOP *** [Qc Jc Kh]
zmanzman: bets $10
Now....i actually put zmanzman on a big hand. AQ or AK, no monsters (ie- KK, QQ) based on his previous play.
He leads out, you hit your set....where do you go given the flop that came down?
Comments
Reraise to $25 or $30 here. It's enough to give him odds to call if he DID hit top pair or top two pair, but not enough for him to chase the straight. If he already has the straight, and re re raises, I would call and hope to hit the boat.
Hitting a set is going to cost you if you run into an over set anyway...not sure I could get away from it.
Edit; Sorry Wolff, I didn't see this being asked to the pros. Take my above statements with a grain of salt. Be interested in knowing how they answer though.
i raise here a significant amount - like around the size of the pot. if he calls, or pushes you are potentially way behind. the only card i'd feel happy seeing on the turn is another J.
He bets $10 into a $31 (now $41) pot. I raise $35 more. No slowplaying your set here.
I don't think you can put him on KK because he wouldn't just call your PF re-raise. Same with QQ, usually. AA might though, and wouldn't that be sweet. If he has AA you're in heaven.
So, raise it $35 more. Flush draw, straight draw, no slowplaying your set.
What happened next? Don't give me everything, just your next action and his next action.
just tease him a little.
god i love it!
*** FLOP *** [Qc Jc Kh]
zmanzman: bets $10
Wolffhound: raises $36 to $46
zmanzman: raises $44 to $90
So...I got close to what Mr Aces said to do...it gets min-re-raised now...
pkrfce gives them credit for being decent players given limits and stack size, i dispute that based soley that I was also in the game... I didn't have any particular respect for any of them from what I had seen in my short time at the table.
I do however realize that I am generally terribly distracted when playing online (and generally have enjoyed a few beers or in the midst of a few beers)
Two pair? KQ/KJ is reasonable guess isn't it, right up until the min-reraise?
Now hug your money...give it a kiss and tell it that you love it, send it out into the world and hope it comes back home.
So I’d push all-in here.
While it is out there get on your hands and knees and start praying for the case jack.
I thinking he has Ac Kc here or at least the Ac.
zmanzman: bets $10
Wolffhound: raises $36 to $46
zmanzman: raises $44 to $90
Wolffhound: raises $101.65 to $191.65 and is all-in
zmanzman: calls $101.65
*** TURN *** [Qc Jc Kh] [As]
*** RIVER *** [Qc Jc Kh As] [Ac]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
zmanzman: shows [9h Td] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Wolffhound: shows [Jh Jd] (a full house, Jacks full of Aces)
Wolffhound collected $411.30 from pot
Thanks all for the feedback. 910o didn't enter into my mind. I was pretty sure I was fk'd on the turn, didn't know about the river...till the pot came my way.
Yeah 9-10 is a very lose call pre-flop and every a looser raise....out of the majority of hands he could have played pre-flop there are only a few that beat you so I would have pushed as well.
Wonder if he even thought you had the top end of the straight though. Very loose of him to call your bet after the action played out the way it did.
Let me explain,
Flop Betting:
zmanzman: bets $10
Wolffhound: raises $36 to $46
zmanzman: raises $44 to $90
Wolffhound: raises $101.65 to $191.65 and is all-in.
IMO once he makes the re-raise you have to decide RIGHT HERE whether to dump the hand or push all-in. You decided you were going to play, so, I think pushing was your only option.
But,
I believe Bruson says you should fold Bottom Set in this situation, and that is on an non-coordinated board. His example uses smaller pairs though, I believe 2 4 J, so less info is gained preflop. This board was coordinated - making it easy to be behind.
Once again,
If you were going to call you had to push - that was a great play.
I wonder if you didnt hit your boat - how easily could you look at how this hand played out and known your bottom set was no good on the flop?
And it is in a book called Supper Sistem Deux.
Super System II
Sorry, It has been probably a year since I read this - it just stuck in my mind.
It is on page 550-551 - it doesnt really apply the same way here - because he is talking about folding a bottom set to a small pot.
Having said that, if the stacks are deeper here, say $500 behind, I would fold bottom set against certain opponents.
In this situation especially, where you are not only concerned about over sets, but also the connected board.
It is probably my Omaha background that makes me cautious, perhaps too cautious, but I can easy list regular opponents who I am making this fold to easily!
Mid set, I am going broke. Bottom set, I could call and get lucky, as was the case, but I am likely ditching it (assuming I have not already committed myself to the pot).
Not to nit pick or antagonize everything that is said on these forums but IMO it would give me more reason to call with the bottom set with deeper stacks. A min raise of 44 dollars by villain is a good price to pay to see the board pair on the turn if his play is indicative of a flopped straight and your read is acute. I would think you get priced out with 2k deep by a decent turn bet and won't get called by a decent player if the board pairs to your all-in after the river. (this sentence isn't put together too well but I think you know what i mean)