An interesting hand...
Hey all
I find this may be interesting, since it's a Cap NL game... meaning the most you can lose in any one hand is 30x BB... or in this case, $7.50. Note that it is only 6 handed
Anyways, I'm going to break this down a bit.. my thoughts in bold
FullTiltPoker Game #1716574229: Table Alvo (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - $7.50 Cap No Limit Hold'em - 23:54:06 ET - 2007/02/01
Seat 1: jdnugent ($21.85) --> Decent player, tight / passive though
Seat 2: ontheriver2357 ($25.80)
Seat 3: Abel Rios 6738 ($5.30) - > Love this guy, complaining when someone hit a flush on him when he limped in from UTG with 92 and hit his 9. He was calling UTG raises of $1.50 with any suited cards, and any Ax
Seat 4: DrTyore ($10.70) --> Our hero
Seat 5: DOUBLE ($55.85) --> Horrible player - he hits anything and he's calling you down, regardless of your bet, if not over-valuing.. I've been PRAYING to hit a set
Seat 6: drummerboy ($26.40)
jdnugent posts the small blind of $0.10
ontheriver2357 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DrTyore [5h 5d]
Abel Rios 6738 calls $0.25
DrTyore calls $0.25 (please hit a 5, please hit a 5)
DOUBLE calls $0.25
drummerboy folds
jdnugent calls $0.15
ontheriver2357 checks
*** FLOP *** [5c 8s 9h]
Good flop, but that straight possibility is there
jdnugent checks
ontheriver2357 checks
Abel Rios 6738 checks
DrTyore bets $1 --> Pot sized-ish bet* (see below)
DOUBLE raises to $2 --> Pfft.. means nothing...
jdnugent calls $2 --> Unsure what he may have.. A9?
ontheriver2357 folds
Abel Rios 6738 calls $2 --> Likely on the draw
DrTyore raises to $7.25, and is capped --> Pot is now $8, and there is no bet on further streets that will force a mistake on anyone. If someone has 67, so be it, but I have 7 outs, with 10 outs on the turn/river.** (see below)
DOUBLE calls $5.25, and is capped
jdnugent calls $5.25, and is capped
Abel Rios 6738 calls $3.05, and is all in
Okay.. the rest is in white, so that I can get some opinions without bias....
DrTyore shows [5h 5d]
DOUBLE shows [9d Qd]
jdnugent shows [Ts Js]
Abel Rios 6738 shows
*** TURN *** [5c 8s 9h] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [5c 8s 9h Kh] [6s]
DrTyore shows three of a kind, Fives
DOUBLE shows a pair of Nines
jdnugent shows King Jack high
DrTyore wins the side pot ($6.25) with three of a kind, Fives
Abel Rios 6738 shows King Jack high
DrTyore wins the main pot ($20.40) with three of a kind, Fives
Abel Rios 6738 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $28.05 Main pot $21.45. Side pot $6.60. | Rake $1.40
Board: [5c 8s 9h Kh 6s]
Seat 1: jdnugent (small blind) showed [Ts Js] and lost with King Jack high
Seat 2: ontheriver2357 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Abel Rios 6738 showed and lost with King Jack high
Seat 4: DrTyore showed [5h 5d] and won ($26.65) with three of a kind, Fives
Seat 5: DOUBLE showed [9d Qd] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 6: drummerboy (button) didn't bet (folded)
* - My bets, upon review, are usually quite good, making it *just* above the amount the person needs to have odds-wise to call. However, I'm thinking that although this is a great move against my fellow live players, online players and their inherent donkey-ness, I'm guessing I should be betting a bit more overtly. I think a lot of my problem online, and quite frankly a hole in my game, is that I should be betting as big as they'll come along for, as long as it still means they are making an error (e.g. --> Put a guy on a flush draw, I have a set, he needs roughly 4:1 on his money to draw from flop / turn, so I'll bet say, $4 into a $10 pot, giving him giving him about 3.5:1 on his money, which means he's making an error... but if I think he'll call $7, that's the better bet) So, does everyone do this, and I"m just slow to join the party, or is this the difference between higher and lower variance swings.
** - Do most people do this, and just consider "straights be damned!"? I didn't want to see monsters under the bed. Also, is this possibly a strategic difference between NL and CAP games? The fact that you should consider that even if the opponent makes an error on a flop call, the cap limits your ability to exploit his errors on further streets? E.g. - had I bet say $4, and got the obscene # of callers, there is no bet on the turn / river to make any drawing hands incorrect to call...
Mark
I find this may be interesting, since it's a Cap NL game... meaning the most you can lose in any one hand is 30x BB... or in this case, $7.50. Note that it is only 6 handed
Anyways, I'm going to break this down a bit.. my thoughts in bold
FullTiltPoker Game #1716574229: Table Alvo (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - $7.50 Cap No Limit Hold'em - 23:54:06 ET - 2007/02/01
Seat 1: jdnugent ($21.85) --> Decent player, tight / passive though
Seat 2: ontheriver2357 ($25.80)
Seat 3: Abel Rios 6738 ($5.30) - > Love this guy, complaining when someone hit a flush on him when he limped in from UTG with 92 and hit his 9. He was calling UTG raises of $1.50 with any suited cards, and any Ax
Seat 4: DrTyore ($10.70) --> Our hero
Seat 5: DOUBLE ($55.85) --> Horrible player - he hits anything and he's calling you down, regardless of your bet, if not over-valuing.. I've been PRAYING to hit a set
Seat 6: drummerboy ($26.40)
jdnugent posts the small blind of $0.10
ontheriver2357 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DrTyore [5h 5d]
Abel Rios 6738 calls $0.25
DrTyore calls $0.25 (please hit a 5, please hit a 5)
DOUBLE calls $0.25
drummerboy folds
jdnugent calls $0.15
ontheriver2357 checks
*** FLOP *** [5c 8s 9h]
Good flop, but that straight possibility is there
jdnugent checks
ontheriver2357 checks
Abel Rios 6738 checks
DrTyore bets $1 --> Pot sized-ish bet* (see below)
DOUBLE raises to $2 --> Pfft.. means nothing...
jdnugent calls $2 --> Unsure what he may have.. A9?
ontheriver2357 folds
Abel Rios 6738 calls $2 --> Likely on the draw
DrTyore raises to $7.25, and is capped --> Pot is now $8, and there is no bet on further streets that will force a mistake on anyone. If someone has 67, so be it, but I have 7 outs, with 10 outs on the turn/river.** (see below)
DOUBLE calls $5.25, and is capped
jdnugent calls $5.25, and is capped
Abel Rios 6738 calls $3.05, and is all in
Okay.. the rest is in white, so that I can get some opinions without bias....
DrTyore shows [5h 5d]
DOUBLE shows [9d Qd]
jdnugent shows [Ts Js]
Abel Rios 6738 shows
*** TURN *** [5c 8s 9h] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [5c 8s 9h Kh] [6s]
DrTyore shows three of a kind, Fives
DOUBLE shows a pair of Nines
jdnugent shows King Jack high
DrTyore wins the side pot ($6.25) with three of a kind, Fives
Abel Rios 6738 shows King Jack high
DrTyore wins the main pot ($20.40) with three of a kind, Fives
Abel Rios 6738 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $28.05 Main pot $21.45. Side pot $6.60. | Rake $1.40
Board: [5c 8s 9h Kh 6s]
Seat 1: jdnugent (small blind) showed [Ts Js] and lost with King Jack high
Seat 2: ontheriver2357 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Abel Rios 6738 showed and lost with King Jack high
Seat 4: DrTyore showed [5h 5d] and won ($26.65) with three of a kind, Fives
Seat 5: DOUBLE showed [9d Qd] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 6: drummerboy (button) didn't bet (folded)
* - My bets, upon review, are usually quite good, making it *just* above the amount the person needs to have odds-wise to call. However, I'm thinking that although this is a great move against my fellow live players, online players and their inherent donkey-ness, I'm guessing I should be betting a bit more overtly. I think a lot of my problem online, and quite frankly a hole in my game, is that I should be betting as big as they'll come along for, as long as it still means they are making an error (e.g. --> Put a guy on a flush draw, I have a set, he needs roughly 4:1 on his money to draw from flop / turn, so I'll bet say, $4 into a $10 pot, giving him giving him about 3.5:1 on his money, which means he's making an error... but if I think he'll call $7, that's the better bet) So, does everyone do this, and I"m just slow to join the party, or is this the difference between higher and lower variance swings.
** - Do most people do this, and just consider "straights be damned!"? I didn't want to see monsters under the bed. Also, is this possibly a strategic difference between NL and CAP games? The fact that you should consider that even if the opponent makes an error on a flop call, the cap limits your ability to exploit his errors on further streets? E.g. - had I bet say $4, and got the obscene # of callers, there is no bet on the turn / river to make any drawing hands incorrect to call...
Mark
Comments
Edit: Point #1: When you offer your opponent 3.5 to 1 when he needs 4.5 to 1, you are making him make a mistake. True. But yer not letting him make a big mistake. Bad. Also, if you have any chips behind after giving your 3.5 , you are actually giving him reverse implied odds to stack your turn bet.
You are too good a player to be losing so much value playing the capped structure games, why do you choose to sit in these? I have never tried them (I don't really play online at all anymore), but would think that you would be losing tremendous value with such a structure both from play on later streets and simple value of stacking other donkish players on the flop versus winning only multiple bbs from them per donking.
I personally don't mind them too much... I find the mentality is similar to a PL game, where players seem more willing to put their chips in since its "Only $xx". The good thing is, you can really pump your value hands, and suckouts cost you less. Plus, I was playing this while watching wrestling, so not 100% of my attention was on it..
Mark
I don't play much NL online Mark but if/when I do I would bet more in this situation, I find on-line donkeys will call more then live.
side note...interesting game and I may try it, I think I like the cap idea at least to gain more experience playing NL ring.