Changes, Ideas, & Thoughts
As we are on a break between seasons, I thought I would once again throw this out to the members for input. Any changes, ideas, or thoughts for improvement?
Personally, I'm thinking of making the starting chips at 1500 or 2000, and getting rid of the first blind level 5/10. Maybe even making a new blind level later in the game, something that wouldn't make the jump so crippling? Thoughts?
There's been extensive discussion on the Top 16 format as well. I personally like the Top 16 idea...promotes steady play and personal improvement as well as attendance. We averaged about 16 players per game last season, and that was the whole idea, bring more people out to each game, and I think it worked well.
Also, several new potential members have requested to join the league as well. Hopefully, they can come to one or two games before they decide to commit, and I'm sure they will come out as often as they can after that. Please keep this in mind when posting your ideas...don't want to scare them off before we take their money, do we?
Personally, I'm thinking of making the starting chips at 1500 or 2000, and getting rid of the first blind level 5/10. Maybe even making a new blind level later in the game, something that wouldn't make the jump so crippling? Thoughts?
There's been extensive discussion on the Top 16 format as well. I personally like the Top 16 idea...promotes steady play and personal improvement as well as attendance. We averaged about 16 players per game last season, and that was the whole idea, bring more people out to each game, and I think it worked well.
Also, several new potential members have requested to join the league as well. Hopefully, they can come to one or two games before they decide to commit, and I'm sure they will come out as often as they can after that. Please keep this in mind when posting your ideas...don't want to scare them off before we take their money, do we?
Comments
Top 16: Given that the league has 20 people who show up rather regularly all the top 16 did was take 4 people who did show up for 50% or more and not allow them to play the final tournament. Despite everything, everyone who shows up contributes towards that pot and to not allow 4 people to not play is wrong IMO. It's not as tho this league is so large that the number of people in the SET is a problem. Make a minimum number of games 6 is reasonable(half the season) and allow everyone who has met that criteria to play.
I also think if you are going to keep the top 16 then no bonus chips should be awarded. The way the last 2 TOC's have played out it's not like the bonus chips have helped those who have had them.
chip counts: Personally I love more chips, and with that being said I do NOT want the night to go later than than it already does. Both Aimee and I get up well before the sun ever comes up and 4 hours or less for sleep isn't good. If more chips come into play I would need an earlier start time or it just isn't going to work if the league goes later into the evening.
Now for suggestions:
If you want to promote a point system and reward attendance then, make the SET 2 tournaments running together with the top 10 playing in one, and the rest of the players playing in the other. Take 2/3 of the money that is taken out of the pot and put it into the "Championship" tourney and the 1/3 goes into the "Consolation" tourney. Assuming 20 regular people show up as seems to be the norm for Ching Hill, then $800 would go into the "Championship" pool and $400 would go into the "Consolation" pool. Everyone would contribute $50 to the SET and play. Again this could be modified to 3/4 and 1/4 if people feels that works better.
You would still have the effort to get into the Top 10 to go for the larger money but keep interest for everyone. It would still promote attendance and
not penalize players who may have real life commitments with work, kids or other things that may keep them from 4 or 5 games during the season.
It would also allow for everyone to play a final tourney for a prize pool that everyone has contributed too. For a "fun" league that is designed to promote improvement as players it is an expensive night out on a weekly basis. For us it amounts to $400 a month to come play. Hardly an inexpensive hobby compared to other things such as a bowling league which might run $120-160 a month for a couple.
I believe the way you keep your league healthy is to allow all players a chance to recoup some of the investment they have made throughout the year. If you don't then I think you may lose some of the players who cash rarely if at all.
Since you asked I thought I would throw in my opinions.
I have to agree with Joe, this might make it a later night, and as it is I get up at 5am for work. IMO I think leaving the chip counts and blind levels the way they are.
That's the purpose here, thanks Joe. Must say, your two tourney SET sounds interesting, gives everyone a chance to win back some investment.
Thanks.
I also like the idea of the double SETs - "championship SET" and "consolation SET". That way there's still a motivation to earn points every week and place high (to play for a higher prize pool), but at the same time, everyone gets to play in the final game.
It'll make for a smaller final prize pool, but seems like a good compromise. I'm not sure if this factors into the equation when figuring out the best way to move forward, but we didn't get an average of 20 players....I think our average was more around 14/15 players.
I've always said that whatever gets people out regularly and encourages strong play is what I'm looking for.
Season 4 there was 19 players with 6 or more games 1 player at 4 games.
Season 3 there was 19 players with 4 or more games (which was the qualifying number to play the SET).
Obviously with real life things like jobs, kids, other interests not everyone can attend every week. I don't feel that making a qualifying number of games being 50% is that difficult to obtain which would actually up the games from season 3's 4 games to 6 games.
I feel this method would promote attendance and yet give everyone a shot at some money for the final. Weaker players have an incentive to improve without feeling like they are throwing money away since they don't win. Those with a schedule that only allows them to attend 7 or 8 games won't find themselves at a large disadvantage either.
The number of players for the final game should be the avg. number of players per game. We may have had 20 or so players that are "regular" but only have about 12 to 15 players a game, and then something is not right. The final game should be about the same number of players per game.
I personally really liked the way the league worked this season, the way the league was set up was to encourage consistent play and players in every game with every player trying to win or finish as high as possible.
I think the two SET idea is interesting but I personally don't like, again we can fall into the problem of averaging 15 players though out the year but then suddenly swell up to 24 for the final game.
Plus having only the top ten for the final big game would reward the players that got lucky a little more then the ones that played more consistently. (A few lucky wins by one player and he's in the top 10 where a player who consistently finishes high and shows up every week but no wins may not be in the top 10.)
I think we need a system that rewards both attendance and consistent play.
I do agree with the chips amount not changing. I think that the amount of starting chips and blind levels are good.
I think the points to bonus chips should stay as well. This promotes players to play their best and try to finish as high as possible each game.
The suggestions I have are to increase the total number of games for the season to 15 and have 6 to qualify. This way it gives more players a great chance to get in.
I agree. And it think it would be fun to have 2 "finals" going on at the same time. Challenging, but fun
There's going to be pros and cons to almost every approach - but this seems like a good compromise. At the very least, it wouldn't hurt to try it this way for a season to see how it goes.
I'd also support "upping" the min games to 6.
I'm also with Joe on having 2 SETs, its a great incentive for someone to try and show up consistantly as well as improve their game without feeling like all they're doing is contributing to someone else's pocket.
Just by looking taking a look at Season 4's leaderboard I don't think it would be a stretch to think that 20 ppl would come out 6+ times.
Garry
This is great as far as I'm concerned, in building the league, and it should be considered in any and all discussions. I'm expecting a minimum of 4 or 5 frequent players who will attend most games.
I believe that the only reason I made it to the finaly game this season is due to my first place win. Other wise I would have been close or not even in the finals. I like Joes Idea, I think it would give more players a reason to come out. YOu may find that more people come out each week knowing they may not play for the big money but a consulation prize. Would still make people want to play more games and do better. It is a new way of looking at things.
The way I see it is. At the end of the day, to say that four people can't play in the finals. is like a kick in the face. It is not like we have sixty or more people showing up at any one givin time. I think It is worth looking at trying this. The other way I see it is that the top winner of the season has less of a change of being knocked out by those of us who were not so at the top.
I like that idea, it seems to promote more play. I would still try to make it to the big winner table. But on the other hand if i didnt least I would be able to maybe play in the consulation. And beleive, me i racked my brain to figure out a way to make it far and competive at the same time and Asked Joe. Seeing how I was one who was not liking this season.
I hope we try, something new and if it doesn't work, then try again. Personaly, I liked the way it was the first season I played. I didnt do very well during the season, but took down second in the TOC. Was very nice for that to happen.
Specially with new and more people being interested in coming out, and givin that new people end up winning, I think this idea is great
I honestly think that Joe's 2-tier TOC concept works well to address everyone's concerns - gives people something to shoot for (and therefore attend regularly and remain competitive), but doesn't exclude those who didn't have a good season.
Chris what the hell kinda drugs are you on ????
I thought when the league started 10.00 from each person was being taken each week for the championship game at the end of the 12 weeks, so in fact it was nobodys money it was the leagues money or everyone that came out each week. So I don't really know how you can say it is the winner of each week that gives the money out of his winnings.
AJ don't you take 10.00 out from each person that walks in to pay for his or her buy-in. Or does the winner get all the entrance fee of 10.00 from each person that comes and then gives it back to YOU AJ.
What it really boils down to is you can say the winner pays for the championship each week OR it can be interperated that 10.00 from each entrance fee is a rake back program for the championship game.
Am I mis interperating it wrong.
Blazin 72
The winner each week does not get this money and then return it. It's taken from the weekly pot prior to payouts.
Cameron
That is what I have been trying to say the whole time. It is not the winners money, it is the players who come out each week who in reality pay for the season ending game. Without the players, there would be not money for the season ending games.
I still think, Joe has come up with the best way how to play the season ending games. I think this idea would promote more play, and bring more people out each week. And if, some think the season ending game does not have enough money in it maybe make it 60 or 70 to buy in for the final game to add to the pot. Say for top finishers, there pay 70 to there pot. Then the runners up pay 60 for there final game. And the money collected during the season gets split between the two.
I am really beginning to think, that this league has become about money more then about playing poker.
Funny you say that.
I will try and recap my point of view on this (and this is similar to my view on poker in general).
Once you pay the buy-in for the event, the money is no longer yours, the money is the prize pool's which at the end of the game goes to the winners.
Now when you start the game you are basically trying to determine whom the winners are.
Much like in a cash game once you put money into the middle of the pot you cannot consider it yours any more but the pots.
The league has never been about money but it has been about regular play.
Thinking that you put money into the final game is focusing on the money, thinking about you put money into the prize pool and trying to win the game is focusing on the game.
but instead of having to attend 4 of the 12 tourny's make it 6 of the 12 tourny's
With the past season we would have had 19 players with 6 or more tourny's, and maybe 20 Players as Igor played 4, he may have showed up for 2 more so he could play in the SET.
The total pot would have been $1950.
I also do like the Top 16, or maybe make it the Top 18, format.
AJ, there seems to be a few good ideas, maybe make a poll here and direct all members of Ching Hill to vote on what they prefer.
just an idea????
I like that idea.
Chinguacousy Hill Poker League is or was $50.00 with $10.00 coming out of the fee. With the $10.00 you guy's and gals were using it for the championship, thats all that I was trying to say.
Or it can be said the $10.00 is a rake back for the people that come out 4 or 6 times for the championship whatever you all decide.
Now AJ told me that it is $100.00 that comes out of the prize pool each week wich is fine but in a sence isn't it like a rake but not a rake because you are having a freeroll for it.
Cameron
Yup that is pretty much it.
Season 3 was $50 buy in and $10 going to the final game with a min of 4 games attended and for those that miss any games would owe $10 for each game missed to play in the final game. This would also allow anyone to play in the final game that attended the min of 4 games.
Season was changed to the top 16 in points got to play in the final. $100 for each of the 12 games would be taken to go towards the final game. The top 16 would also have to pay $50 for the final game.
In each of those season there was points awarded to each player, those points would be used for extra starting chips in the final game.
Yes, they were, and still are. I like to think of the point system though as more of a gauge of a players overall ability, skill, and perservance rather than just blind luck. The league crowns a Points Champion as well as a Money Champion each season...just the past two seasons for both CHAMPIONS, it's been the same person...hell, the same HOUSEHOLD!
So if anyone has any other suggestions besides the SET, lets here it. I for one have several.
1. One time there were these hard little newfie candies for snacks. I'd like to see more of that.
2. Why does the winner have to bring the snacks, I think the loser should.
3. RJ continues to look at my hole cards, then runs over and tells AJ.
4. The bracelet is getting kind of worn. I say for season 5, the champ keeps it, and a new bracelet be introduced. We've always talked about making it more manly anyway.
5. Faster blinds when in the money round. What I mean, is once the bubble spot has be eliminated. Go to a counted numbers of hands before the blinds go up. Lets say the bubble-boy goes out at the 100/200 level. then play 10 more hands and go up to 150/300, 10 more hands then up a level, and so on.
6. Seat change request. Allow each player 1 seat change, if they don't like there luck at the table.
7. Ban all good luck charms at the table, this is unfair advantage to the other players.
8. We need a tv set in the game area when a leaf or raptor game is on.
9. Manditory bounty on previous game's champ.
10. No five dollar bills used for the buy-in.
I got more but it gets kinda ridiculous from here on in.
You're kidding!
Are you referring to kisses? Still have some, but once they're gone, they're gone...unless someone wants to go to Newfoundland to get more. Never found them in Ontario.
Ummmm, winner can afford it?? Losers should eat and drink for free...it's the least we can do to help the less fortunate
Trained her well, haven't I? Unfortunately, it loses something in the translation. Besides, if anyone is getting secrets from RJ, it would be Tony!
Oh GROW UP! It IS a manly bracelet! Just not enough REAL men in the league who know how to appreciate it.
Jeff, brother...when you're heads up, it IS 10 hands per 20 mins! No one else in the league gets CLOCK called more than you. And when were we EVER headsup at 100/200???
Doesn't happen in tournament play. Seat you get is it.
You can always bring one yourself, even things out for you. Besides, what you call a good luck charm, some of us call card protectors
I TOTALLY agree, although I prefer Bruins games!!! Tell you what...YOU talk to the wife about this one!!!
And this would be put up by....??
At first, I think he did this as a joke. But you know what? It sure makes making change a hell of alot faster! Besides, cash is cash...so long as it's legal tender (and in PAPER form), I'll take it.