Is this a terrible laydown?

It might be, it might not be...

PokerStars Game #7555609622: Tournament #38650098, $315+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/12/22 - 13:10:09 (ET)
Table '38650098 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Pokermäklarn (1020 in chips)
Seat 3: DTDFUN (90 in chips)
Seat 4: domingo32 (2170 in chips)
Seat 5: all aces (2560 in chips)
Seat 6: NAY SMITH (1320 in chips)
Seat 7: klippity (2705 in chips)
Seat 8: Mortholmes (1510 in chips)
Seat 9: Flacky (2125 in chips)
Flacky: posts small blind 50
Pokermäklarn: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to all aces [Kd Ah]
DTDFUN: calls 90 and is all-in
domingo32: folds
all aces: raises 200 to 300
NAY SMITH: folds
klippity: folds
Mortholmes: folds
Flacky: raises 1825 to 2125 and is all-in
Pokermäklarn: folds
all aces: folds

Comments

  • Doesn't it depend on a whole heck of a lot of info that you haven't shared?

    Your read on the player, your table image, stage in the tourney, etc.....
  • ElElliott wrote: »
    Doesn't it depend on a whole heck of a lot of info that you haven't shared?

    Your read on the player, your table image, stage in the tourney, etc.....
    Agreed.

    If it's the final table of a satellite where 6 seats are awarded it's the easiest fold of all time.

    /g2
  • Echoing the above comments as well, without more information, can't really say if it was a good or bad laydown.

    If you were ahead, you weren't by much, and if you were behind, it would most likely be a race.
  • all_aces wrote: »
    It might be, it might not be...

    PokerStars Game #7555609622: Tournament #38650098, $315+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/12/22 - 13:10:09 (ET)
    Table '38650098 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
    Seat 1: Pokermäklarn (1020 in chips)
    Seat 3: DTDFUN (90 in chips)
    Seat 4: domingo32 (2170 in chips)
    Seat 5: all aces (2560 in chips)
    Seat 6: NAY SMITH (1320 in chips)
    Seat 7: klippity (2705 in chips)
    Seat 8: Mortholmes (1510 in chips)
    Seat 9: Flacky (2125 in chips)
    Flacky: posts small blind 50
    Pokermäklarn: posts big blind 100
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to all aces [Kd Ah]
    DTDFUN: calls 90 and is all-in
    domingo32: folds
    all aces: raises 200 to 300
    NAY SMITH: folds
    klippity: folds
    Mortholmes: folds
    Flacky: raises 1825 to 2125 and is all-in
    Pokermäklarn: folds
    all aces: folds

    Damn newbies...the new Big Dawg SirWatts wouldn't post this:)


    D

    p.s. there is always the thought that, seeming as you are probably (if not for sure) the best player at the table. Why call off your remaining chips in this spot? I'm sure that you can recoup your fold in a matter of minutes. I don't think its bad regardless of the table information.
  • Wolffhound wrote: »
    Damn newbies...the new Big Dawg SirWatts wouldn't post this:)

    BAMMMMM
    ROFLMAO
  • Who is SirWatts? I only watch ESPN, and I haven't seen him yet...

    hahahahahahahaha

    Nothing but love for successful poker players, and for that matter, even more love for all the unscuccessful poker players...

    OK OK OK ya bunch of crazies. It's a freakin' TURBO SNG. $300 buy-in, if that matters. My read on the player is: TYPICAL. The problem with trying to categorize players in sit and go's is that most winning SNG players will (obviously) play according to stack sizes and blind levels. Nowhere is this more crucial than in a Turbo SNG, where there's not much room for laydowns, and where people are largely motivated by necessity, or lack of it. (ie: do I HAVE to play this hand, am I ABLE to fold this hand, is there any reason why I SHOULDN'T steal these crucial blinds, etc etc etc)

    Anywho, there you go. My opponent hasn't been particularly active or passive, but most player's actions in the first few levels of a Turbo SNG give you no indication whatsoever of how that player might behave as the blinds escalate, for reasons I've more or less mentioned, IMHO.

    I've been playing a lot of these things lately, but this hand... I don't know... simultaneously boring and fascinating for me.

    Maybe "fascinating" is overstating things a wee bit...
  • all_aces wrote: »
    Who is SirWatts? I only watch ESPN, and I haven't seen him yet...


    apparently he won a Bristol or something like that. ESPN and Watts haven't come to terms. They are negotiating a contract for him to final table a few WSOP events. And they say on line poker is rigged.

    I probably push Devo in a turbo. I think most are donks but you probably would have lost to a 10 3 suited so it's a good lay down.
  • AcidJoe wrote: »
    I think most are donks but you probably would have lost to a 10 3 suited so it's a good lay down.

    Do many donks play 10-3 in a $315 SNG?
  • gayest fold ever. look at those pot odds, man! no way he makes that move with KK or AA.

    ok there. i've stirred things up enough.
  • No, I didn't put him on AA or KK. But let's say I know he has 22 to QQ... would it then be a gay, bisexual, or heterosexual fold?

    ;)
  • ok i'll be kind. it seems 'weak' to me. extra especially if this is a turbo
  • all_aces wrote: »
    No, I didn't put him on AA or KK. But let's say I know he has 22 to QQ... would it then be a gay, bisexual, or heterosexual fold?

    ;)


    metrosexual fold.
  • I haven't made it that high yet Devo, just sticking with 25 and 32 turbo, but I make that call everytime at my stakes. But at the stakes...
  • all_aces wrote: »
    No, I didn't put him on AA or KK. But let's say I know he has 22 to QQ... would it then be a gay, bisexual, or heterosexual fold?

    ;)

    Not sure about the fold, but the hand itself is overtly Bisexual..you could swing either way and its all good.

    Folding not to race from a survival perspective and believing you will outplay them without risking most of your stack(or at least getting it in first)-seems fine.

    Calling with odds and in the turbo time crunch also seems allright. I agree this hand IS "simultaneously boring and fascinating"
  • First of all good game selection I dont recognize anybody in this tournament and the big sngs are usually super tough these days. The hand looks like a fold since STT players seem to be really tight. He probably has a range no looser than:

    equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
    Hand 1: 60.2145 % 44.09% 16.13% { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
    Hand 2: 39.7855 % 23.66% 16.13% { AsKd }

    and I wouldn't discount AA/KK really. So looks like a close fold based on pot odds, but when you factor in the fact that it's a STT not a MTT I think it makes this an even easier fold anyways because the chips you gain from winning just aren't worth as much as the chips you could lose.
  • 2+2 did some analysis of the effect of passing up a 'coin flip' early in a tournament and what kind of odds you need to get on future hands to make it the right play. It was quite surprising. They found that passing up a coin flip meant that you had to be able to double up at a future point where you would be a 60% or better favourite.

    Now, I'm recalling all this from memory, but it led me to 'embrace' the flip as the cost of poker.
  • Was this for MTTs or STTs? I agree for MTTs never passing small edges, but for STTs, even in the early stages, I'm not sure the same applies. But I really only know MTT theory. Still on pot odds alone this should be a fold.
  • Glad it's not a clear-cut call or fold...

    Pot odds was what it more or less came down to for me... I had invested very few of my chips relative to my remaining stack... I just figured "why bother". I was pretty sure it was going to be a coin-flip. As it turned out, it wasn't, and I was very surprised by what my opponent had.

    The rest of the hand (not that it matters):

    PokerStars Game #7555609622: Tournament #38650098, $315+$20 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/12/22 - 13:10:09 (ET)
    Table '38650098 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
    Seat 1: Pokermäklarn (1020 in chips)
    Seat 3: DTDFUN (90 in chips)
    Seat 4: domingo32 (2170 in chips)
    Seat 5: all aces (2560 in chips)
    Seat 6: NAY SMITH (1320 in chips)
    Seat 7: klippity (2705 in chips)
    Seat 8: Mortholmes (1510 in chips)
    Seat 9: Flacky (2125 in chips)
    Flacky: posts small blind 50
    Pokermäklarn: posts big blind 100
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to all aces [Kd Ah]
    DTDFUN: calls 90 and is all-in
    domingo32: folds
    all aces: raises 200 to 300
    NAY SMITH: folds
    klippity: folds
    Mortholmes: folds
    Flacky: raises 1825 to 2125 and is all-in
    Pokermäklarn: folds
    all aces: folds
    *** FLOP *** [5d 6d 2d]
    *** TURN *** [5d 6d 2d] [7h]
    *** RIVER *** [5d 6d 2d 7h] [3h]
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Flacky: shows [Qh Ac] (high card Ace)
    Flacky collected 430 from side pot
    DTDFUN: shows [8c Jh] (high card Jack)
    Flacky collected 360 from main pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 790 Main pot 360. Side pot 430. | Rake 0
    Board [5d 6d 2d 7h 3h]
    Seat 1: Pokermäklarn (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: DTDFUN showed [8c Jh] and lost with high card Jack
    Seat 4: domingo32 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 5: all aces folded before Flop
    Seat 6: NAY SMITH folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 7: klippity folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: Mortholmes (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 9: Flacky (small blind) showed [Qh Ac] and won (790) with high card Ace
  • JohnnieH wrote: »
    Do many donks play 10-3 in a $315 SNG?


    they probably don't. Just cuz you getting in with the best doesn't mean it's g oing to hold up. Still in a turbo I call and probably lose. If he thought Devo was a tight player he could have been pushing with air.

    but Devo plays more of these than me so I would trust his judgement more than mine.
  • AQ or AJ, that's what I expected him to have.

    I am the greatest! LOL

    /g2
  • Haha... inconceivable that he could have JJ, right? ;)

    Many players, given the stack sizes, probably wouldn't re-raise AQ or AJ in that spot, especially considering that one player was all-in so it was unlikely that I was bluffing... in fact, given my position, it was unlikely that I was bluffing, period. A risky play by my AQ opponent but it worked...
  • I agree with PKR on pagre 1, not about the "gayest fold ever" :) but rather that he wouldnt make this move with AA or KK. It rather seems like he'd be making an incerdibly bold play to pick up your few chips and let the all in make his 200 or so, or that he feels his hand is a favourite over the short stacked all in player, and feels he can get you to lay down your big hand hoping you dont have AA KK or perhaps QQ...
  • Whoops I see it's already been answered... ya really risky play by him...
  • I think it's a pretty bad fold, but if you think you're good enough to progress without taking any huge risks atm, I can see it being a reasonable move.
Sign In or Register to comment.