Need some help with this one

Studs99Studs99
in Brags, Beats & Variance
As you can tell this 9-man sit n go was really early into when i played this hand. I'm still only playing $5-$10 sit n go's and really need to improve my game, especially on this hand. I was so confused as to what to do after each card. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


- Level I (10/20) - 2006/10/12 - 14:28:43 (ET)
Table '33576911 1' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: peacepipe351 (1465 in chips)
Seat 2: earwig214 (1450 in chips)
Seat 3: drummaster1 (1680 in chips)
Seat 4: Studs99 (1560 in chips)
Seat 5: Danimal04 (1480 in chips)
Seat 6: goatboy646 (1485 in chips)
Seat 7: t8823 (1500 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: coscort (1440 in chips)
Seat 9: High Def (1440 in chips)
Danimal04: posts small blind 10
goatboy646: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Studs99 [Qh Qs]
t8823: folds
coscort: calls 20
High Def: folds
peacepipe351: calls 20
earwig214: folds
drummaster1: folds
Studs99: raises 80 to 100
Danimal04: raises 180 to 280
goatboy646: folds
coscort: folds
peacepipe351: folds
peacepipe351 is sitting out
Studs99: calls 180
I FIND IN THESE LOW LIMIT SIT N GO'S THAT GUYS WILL CALL ALMOST ANY RAISE, SO I LIKE TO BUMP IT UP 4x-5x EARLY IN THE TOURNIES. SHOULD I HAVE CAME OVER THE TOP OF HIS RAISE?

*** FLOP *** [3h 3c 4d]
Danimal04: bets 140
Studs99: calls 140
WAS THIS A GOOD CALL OR SHOULD I HAVE COME OVER THE TOP?

*** TURN *** [3h 3c 4d] [Ks]
Danimal04: bets 300
Studs99: calls 300
NOW THIS IS WHERE I HAD NO IDEA WHAT I WAS DOING. FOLD WHEN THE KING POPS?

*** RIVER *** [3h 3c 4d Ks] [Ad]
I'M DONE WITH THE HAND

Danimal04: bets 760 and is all-in
Studs99: folds
Danimal04 collected 1500 from pot
Danimal04: doesn't show hand
PLEASE AS YOU CAN TELL I PLAYED CONFUSED IN THIS HAND

Comments

  • g2g2
    Yes, you should have come over the top on the flop. Flat calling doesn't give you any information about your opponent's hand.

    /g2
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    Hmm... well... I want to say 'depends on reads", but let's pretend it's the first hand.

    I like the raise, may have done a bit more with a couple of limpers...

    I get re-raised, from a guy out of position eh? Hmm...

    <thought process>

    Low limit SNG, players are donkeys more often than not, there are 2 hands that beat me, and one I'm a coin flip, the rest I dominate. Let's re-raise!

    -->Studs99 re-raises to 600

    This seems about right, it's a little under 1/2 my stack, and I don't like losing it, but there are a few things that can happen...

    A: He folds - good boy
    B: He re-raises --> He has AA / KK, and I'd fold grudgingly (or probably more likely push all in and find a new SNG when he shows AA/KK)
    C: He calls --> Ahh! What would he raise and then call with? AK perhaps? Maybe JJ? I still have to assume he's gonna pump with KK / AA, though I get burned a lot here

    Now, if he calls, and the flop comes down as it did.. I push - and then go look for a new SNG.

    Mark
  • HobbesHobbes
    You call of his reraise preflop was a bit weak, but not the worst play.

    With that flop (and his weak bet), I either pushing all in here to take it down or raising the pot.

    Probably a good fold esp with the Ace hitting on the river. I would suspect that you were ahead till then though.
  • specialKspecialK
    first off i don't think that the FC preflop is the worst play... at this point in the sng i'm probably going to reraise to about 600 (as drtyore said) seems about right... same basically, if he goes over top i'm folding, if he FC's then you have to go to the flop. If the flop comes down like that 334, then you should push hoping to get called by a smaller pair JJ or TT or maybe even AK, in this instance AA or KK seems very unlikely because those hands would probably push preflop rather than FC your reraise. That's a hypothetical situation, in your situation when the flop comes down 334, and dude who just made a reraise of 180 bets out 140... now here you're faced with another tough descision because of a lack of info... here IMHO you have to options:
    1 reraise to 500 - 600 or
    2 shove all in
    by process of elimination i would choose the second option... here is my reasoning, with the first option you reraise puts the other player to a choice, fold, call or raise, and with basically any pair TT or higher he is probably pushing, also if he FC's which i think is pretty improbable at this point you could probably safely say you are winning. if he folds you win the pot. but say he reraises, now you a forced into a tough descision, where you might fold the best hand ie he pushes with TT or JJ or AK or a really unlikely QQ. So i would just shove and force him to make a descision... if he has AA or KK then so be it... othewise you are ahead and he is probably going to make the wrong descision because of his lack of information about your hand.
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    specialK wrote: »
    if he folds you win the pot. but say he reraises, now you a forced into a tough descision, where you might fold the best hand ie he pushes with TT or JJ or AK or a really unlikely QQ.


    Sometimes it's okay to fold the best hand.

    Mark
  • specialKspecialK
    DrTyore wrote: »
    Sometimes it's okay to fold the best hand.

    uhmmm... you probably want to avoid doing it though... i mean if you like winning... you have to keep in mind i'm giving my opinion, and my opinion here is based a lot on the buy in of these sng's
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    specialK wrote: »
    uhmmm... you probably want to avoid doing it though... i mean if you like winning... you have to keep in mind i'm giving my opinion, and my opinion here is based a lot on the buy in of these sng's


    Okay, let's imagine the situation with the following considerations

    A: Assume "given the buy in of these SNG's", that I'm one of the better players

    B: Assume his "pushing" hands are JJ, QQ, AA, KK, AKs/o

    Okay, so by re-raising him and seeing him push, there are 5 hands I can put him on, one of which I beat, one which I chop, one which I'm 50/50 and two that I'm dominated.

    If I can assume I'm a better player, I can recoop from losing a large chunk of my stack. If I'm one of the better players, I can find better spots to get my money in (only 1 out of the 5 scenarios here am I winning outright). If I am one of the better players I want to minimize luck (i.e. coin flips). If I am one of the better players, I need to realize when I'm beat and let go of "monsters".

    If he gets me off QQ, and shows 10 10 or J J well, that's fine, I missed one pot - there will be more, and I just got a lot of information. If he doesn't show, well, that's fine as well because I think I made the right play.

    As you can see, it's not easy being one of the better players. Sometimes it is okay to lay down the best hand, but it's more important to realize when you only have the second best hand.

    ;)

    Mark
  • HobbesHobbes
    DrTyore wrote: »
    Okay, let's imagine the situation with the following considerations

    A: Assume "given the buy in of these SNG's", that I'm one of the better players


    That's quite the imagination you got there Mark :o
    (Sorry couldn't resist)

    But your point is valid, if I know that I can beat the players at the table then folding the odd hand when I know I am probably behind or in a race is OK. I can get the chips back later.
  • BBC ZBBC Z
    Sometimes it's okay to fold the best hand.

    Great piece of advice. I prefer to apply that logic later in a tournament than earlier when I'm making decisions that could substantially affect my stack.

    In this case, it's so early I dont mind busting out but calling all-in with QQ on an AK'd board against some random internet guy with no previous history isn't in my playbook.

    Play the flop harder. That 120 chip bet into a pot of 500 sucks. It's too cheap. You gave away a cheap draw at the 8 scare cards.
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