Open Letter to CPF Moderators

beanie42

I used to enjoy this forum a lot, and I appreciate all the work put into it by Sloth and the moderators. However, for over 2 months, our thread "Home Games Page Hi Jacked" (http://pokerforum.ca/forum/index.php?topic=9400.0) has only received the response "please be patient". I believe I have been, and while I understand you are all busy, this simply needs to be resolved, and quickly.

While I used to read the forum throughout the day, I can no longer do that because I have to sift through so much spam first. Spending a few minutes here and there was OK, but now it is impossible to find anything worth reading quickly enough to do it casually. The spam has accelerated as the moderators have ignored it, and I expect my interest and participation to continue to decrease at the same rate. While I am simply 1 of many members, and do not consider myself important enough to warrant a response individually, I believe a large portion of the worthwhile and active membership feel as I do.

Separating home games and club games is a tricky issue, and I can understand why this requires some thought and consideration. However, almost worse is the constant bump, update, new schedule, and similar posts that are being spewed onto the site. The forum rules (located at http://pokerforum.ca/forum/index.php?topic=8617.0) clearly state:

7. No needless thread â€œbumpingâ€ (replying to your own post to bring others attention to it)

However, on the first page of the Home Games the following posts can all be found:

89suitdd wrote update July 28

The Unit wrote Update!

AirportClub wrote BUMP

bpcguy wrote BUMP

AirportClub wrote Bump

callstation wrote BUMP!

These posts are not unique or from new members, they are simply more of the same from a small group of spammers who have violated a rule that is not being enforced. One had the audacity to publically state:

callstation wrote I bump it when it goes off the first page.

I ask one simple question: Is rule #7 about bumping still a rule?

If it isn't, each member will decide for themselves how to proceed. However, if it is actually still a rule, please start enforcing it. We were asked to use the "report to moderator" button, and I did for a while, until I realized there was simply nobody responding at the other end. If this is too much work given the schedules of the current moderators, please appoint more. There are many who have stated they are willing, and I am sure there are others who would do it if asked. This can also be done without having to deal with the difficult subject of what a home game actually is (which has been reported as the reason no action has been taken).

I truly hope I get a response and that this question about rule #7 is finally dealt with. The forum is slowly dying, and I do not want to just watch that happen.

Regards,
Trevor D. Cook
(aka Beanie42)

witchdoctor

I totally agree with Trevor on this one....I couldn't have said it better myself.

BlondeFish

Ditto!

JohnnieH

I would like to nominate beanie42 to be a Moderator.

We all know what a huge asset Trevor is to CPF, and he would do great job for us. He spends a great deal of time contributing to the forum (EVERYDAY!!) and is willing to stand up for what he thinks is right, honest and fair.

I'm not say anything to slight our current mods, but why not give a little more administrative power to a member who has already contributed so much to Canada's Poker Forum already?

JMHO,

JohnnieH

STR82ACE

I SECOND the nomination!!! Beanie would do a GREAT job!

BEANIE FOR PRIME MINISTER!

Wolffhound

beanie42

JohnnieH wrote I would like to nominate beanie42 to be a Moderator.

Thanks for the nomination guys, but this wasn't a campaign speech ;) .Â Actually, as everyone who knows me realizes, I'm almost too black/white to be given that sort of authority!Â If asked, I wouldn't decline, but I think there are many others who are willing and able.Â Just a quick look at the stats page (http://pokerforum.ca/forum/index.php?action=stats) and a bunch of people jump out, like g2, STR82ACE, Zithal (and even you Johnnie!).

Personally, my mod of choice would be the return of ScottyZ!Â "You call bump this one and it's all over, baby".Â He did an amazing job, and we never had problems like this when he was here.Â Unfortunately, that's a lot to ask of him considering he's already "done his time", and received headaches (from a vocal minority) for it.

JohnnieH wrote I'm not say anything to slight our current mods

This is not my desire either.Â They have done a great job in the past, but recently, it has obviously been more difficult for them to keep up (due to forum growth and just "life").Â My point was simply that if it is a rule, enforce it, one way or another.

stpboy

Hear hear!

stp

pkrfce9

Yo Sloth and mods! Thanks for all your hard work.

I do believe CPF has lost something in the past several months. Hard to say what but it is a general feeling I have and others I have discussed this with also note the same thing. Several people are willing to help out.

Hork42

BUMP

beanie42

Nexus-Poker wrote Nexus-Poker is sensitive to members' concerns. We do not want to post every time we run a game but we are at a disadvantage if we don't (other clubs get exposure while we don't).

Thanks for the post Nexus. This is a different way of looking at it compared to how I normally do, and I honestly agree that if you don't break the rules you are at a disadvantage. The rules need to be enforced for all, and your post makes me think this is in the clubs best interests as well.

Nexus-Poker wrote Visible, easy to read games calendar listing weekly games/tournaments & 'regular' bonuses/promos. This would include regular 'true home games' & ensures equal exposure & less 'ads'. We may be wrong but we believe most already know which clubs are 'true home games' without having to separate them. Infrequent, 'true home games' could make new threads ahead of time & 'bump'.

A calendar would be nice, but would require additional development, so probably not going to happen. Sloth mentioned moving to a new program for the forum, so maybe those features will be available then, but that doesn't help the current problem.

Nexus-Poker wrote 'esool' has something similar & it's stickied but sticky's tend to be ignored. When we were players & looking for a game, we'd look at that day's posts in 'Home games' but not the sticky. It was more convenient.

Players will find the games in the easiest way possible, I agree. However, if the easiest way is by searching, or checking a sticky, or going to page 2, they will do that. The only reason "looking at the day's posts" works is because the rules are not being enforced (currently). Assuming a level playing field with the other clubs, I don't think being on page 2 is going to cause everyone to stop playing.

And while I do really appreciate your reply, and think it adds value to the discussion, I hope you get banned. You made the identical post in the "hi-jacked" thread, which is clearly violating the cross-posting rule #8 (see http://pokerforum.ca/forum/index.php?topic=8617.0). But you're probably safe for now :(

pkrfce9

I guess the best solution is to put enough 'stickys' on the 'home games' forum to fill up the first page. Then no jostling to make sure your post is on the first page...

pkrfce9

No need to post it twice. Just bump it repeatedly.

Wolffhound

Bump

WaterLooser

[deleted]

For me, there is no point in touching the Home Games section, period, until there are some guidelines in place about "raked, illegal club games" vs. "home games".Â Although it sounds like it would be fun to delete every single bump post in that section--which would require me to be looking at the Home Games section at least 5 or 6 times a day, I think it would be much more efficient to wait for a ruling, and then (hopefully) delete all offensive posts in one big glorious shot.

At that time, providing the ruling goes the way I think it's going to go, any raked games threads in the Home Games section would simply be deleted, and the people who posted them would simply be banned.Â Their IP addresses would be banned, their usernames, etc. and then this problem would take care of itself.Â I am of course referring to people who would continue to post advertisements for their illegal games in the Home Games section, and I am of course referring to how things would go AFTER said guidelines had been posted.

So, to outline the two options that I have (as I see it):

1) I take action on this issue now.Â I don't have the power to create policy on this site, which means that all I'd be able to do is delete any post that is an obvious "bump" post, without actually being able to prevent an identical "bump" post from taking its place.Â So, I'd sit at my computer all day and night, waging war against a number of very determined poker club promoters.Â The game we'd play would involve seeing who can delete (me) and who can post (them) the fastest.

2) I wait for Home Games guidelines to appear, which strictly address where and how "club games" can be advertised.Â Anyone who does not conform to these guidelines is banned immediately, and I never have to deal with them or their bump posts again.Â All Club Games threads get moved to the appropriate section, and those who are not interested in club games never have to look at them.Â The Home Games section is a bump-free, spam-free haven for recreational poker players.

All I've ever said about this issue is this (and this is all I really have to say about it):

As for the matter at hand, I can see the problem.Â When does it stop being a "Home Game" and start being advertising for a club that takes a piece of each pot?Â Hmmm....Â Maybe it would be best to implement a policy for the Home Games section that says it's just for non-raked games.Â Raked games can advertise in the advertising section.Â The problem with that is that NO games are legally supposed to be raked, so specifying that the Home Games section is to be for NON-raked games is, in a way, acknowledging that there are a lot of illegal raked games happening out there.

I don't think we can simply go ahead and delete some of the posts, and leave others, without specifying a set of guidelines as to what is and what is not acceptable.Â The trouble will lie in the wording of said guidelines.Â Since we are skirting some legal issues here, as well as possibly pissing off some of the heavy hitters of the underground poker scene, I think this is a decision that should be left to Neil.Â Not trying to pass the buck, but it is his site and he is responsible for it to some extent.

This forum is not slowly dying.Â That section is.Â And as for having trouble sifting through the spam, I will remind you that there is never any spam (for long) in any section other than the Home Games section.Â I delete and ban (as Wes does) with impunity in any other section.Â I'm not touching Home Games (for now).Â It's a mess, and I know what I'm up against.Â For every "bump" post I delete, a new one will appear.Â I am staying away from it until I get the green light to clean house and ban at will.Â Until that happens, I'd suggest you do the same.

[deleted]

BTW I have also just sent a personal email to Neil about this. I know you're all sick of hearing the word "soon", but... soon...

beanie42

I respectfully disagree, vigorously.

all_aces wrote 1) I take action on this issue now. Â I don't have the power to create policy on this site, which means that all I'd be able to do is delete any post that is an obvious "bump" post, without actually being able to prevent an identical "bump" post from taking its place. Â So, I'd sit at my computer all day and night, waging war against a number of very determined poker club promoters. Â The game we'd play would involve seeing who can delete (me) and who can post (them) the fastest.

My previous petition and current suggestion has NOTHING to do with raked games, or club vs home (although that is an issue). Â I am simply asking that the current rules be enforced. Â Those rules clearly state that bumping is not allowed, and that penalties include warning and banning. Â I don't see why new policy is needed to enforce this? Â If somebody bumps, warn them. Â If they bump again, ban them. Â This is regardless of whether they are a raked game or just someone being obnoxious. Â

As an example, and with no disrespect to Wolffhound, his post above deserves a warning and a link to the rules, and if he does it again, he should be banned. Â This is how I feel about my friends, and Dave is an individual, not a club, and he takes no rake. Â Any policy decision made by Sloth in the future should not handcuff you in the present. Â And you don't need to "race" with these spammers, simply ban them under the current rules, without regard to whether they are a club or not.

all_aces wrote This forum is not slowly dying. Â That section is. Â And as for having trouble sifting through the spam, I will remind you that there is never any spam (for long) in any section other than the Home Games section. Â I delete and ban (as Wes does) with impunity in any other section. Â I'm not touching Home Games (for now). Â It's a mess, and I know what I'm up against. Â For every "bump" post I delete, a new one will appear. Â I am staying away from it until I get the green light to clean house and ban at will. Â Until that happens, I'd suggest you do the same.

When I say the forum is slowly dying, I mean that the frequency of useful posts is diminishing. Â As I mentioned, for me this is because I don't have time to go through all the spam, so I don't visit as often. I know for a fact the same is true for certain members, and I assume it is true for some others I haven't directly spoken with. Â

Also, I use the "unread posts since last visit", so a topic being in Home Games or Advertising is irrelevant, if the bumping continues. Â I can't simply ignore Home Games based on the current design of the forum. Â

To be clear, my biggest problem, is not which section a post is in, or with raked games, it is with bumping and cross-posting, and I believe this can be dealt with based on the current rules Neil has already posted. Based on the post from Wes, it appears this is exactly what he is planning on doing (thanks again, Wes).

[deleted]

When I say the forum is slowly dying, I mean that the frequency of useful posts is diminishing.Â As I mentioned, for me this is because I don't have time to go through all the spam, so I don't visit as often

What spam?Â There is never any spam in any section besides the Home Games section.Â I don't follow.

To be clear, my biggest problem, is not which section a post is in, or with raked games, it is with bumping and cross-posting, and I believe this can be dealt with based on the current rules Neil has already posted.Â Based on the post from Wes, it appears this is exactly what he is planning on doing (thanks again, Wes).

Then what's the problem?Â I thought your post was actually sort of attacking Wes specifically, because, as has been mentioned several times on this forum (this was posted by Scotty, March 9, 2006):

As I mentioned when they were designated as forum moderators, all_aces and Dave Scharf were (and still are) under no expectation from either me or Sloth to actually participate in forum moderation. (Also, one other reason that Dave S was made a global Mod was so that he is able to better manage his own forum section.) It was actually extremely valuable to me to have them classified as Mods simply so we could have discussions in a private "Mod Talk" section of the forum. Moderating the forum as little or as much as they like is completely their perrogative.

And clearly doing whatever the heck he feels like with the forum is Sloth's perrogative.

I thought I was defending Wes.Â But, you think he's doing a good job.Â I think he's doing a good job.Â I am lost here.

beanie42

all_aces wrote What spam?Â There is never any spam in any section besides the Home Games section.Â I don't follow.

If you use "unread posts since last visit", you get a list of all sections, so all recent posts are mixed together.Â This is how many of us use the site. Any spam, even in 1 section, makes it difficult to use the entire site.

all_aces wrote Then what's the problem?Â I thought your post was actually sort of attacking Wes specifically, because, as has been mentioned several times on this forum (this was posted by Scotty, March 9, 2006):

How to respond "diplomatically".Â I was not trying to attack Wes directly, although if he is the only current mod responsible for enforcing the rules on the forum, I guess I was.Â The current rules have not been enforced in the Home Games section for months, pending a decision about whether club games are advertising or not.Â My complaint has been that you can ignore the "which section" question while still enforcing the rules about bumping.Â Whether this is solely Wes's responsibility, I'm not sure, although it sounds like it may be (since Neil is busy right now).Â

I think there has been so much confusion about club vs. home that the bump issue was being missed.Â It appears that the issue is at the forefront now, and clearly noticed as a separate issue, and that Wes is dealing with it now.