To vaccinate or not, to have proof or not?

trigs

moose;c-420502 wrote
trigs;c-420498 wrote
It's true. I basically am a lefty pinko communist lol. Sorry.

trigs;c-420493 wrote
torontotablecpt;c-420491 wroteYou did protect yourself. You took the vaccine. Don’t worry what I do.

And yea, they would have more people onboard if they avoided the word passport. But when has anything the govt rolled out been good?
The vaccine does not provide 100% safety. You should know this because ~~people on your side of the argument~~ people who choose not to get vaccinated (I'm sorry, I shouldn't have phrased it that way as I don't know if you actually feel that way or not) use this fact as to why we don't need to take the vaccine (ironically enough). It obviously helps, but in order to actually curb the spread of the virus, we need the vast majority (what is it, something like 85% or more they say) to be vaccinated and that is currently not the case (Ontario is something like 77% has at least one vaccination iirc). So since we can't force those to take the vaccine, what else can we do? I guess according to you, there is nothing and we, the vaccinated, are just victims to the whims of the unvaxxed, correct?

EDIT: And again, I am worried about what you do because you not getting vaxxed effects me and everyone around you. Again, I agree with you about having issues with vaccine passports, but choosing to not get vaccinated is not a choice that just effects you and you alone. Like George Costanza would say "We're trying to live in a society here!"
I thought you taught English?

effect - noun
affect - verb

God help us.

Lol. You got me. Never said I was perfect.

compuease

As for voting choice I like none of them. As far as a leader goes I probably dislike Singh the least but I just couldn't bring myself to vote NDP even if I was the candidate... well maybe.....

Trudeau has the charisma but has just gone too far I'm afraid, and the PC party, well I could probably throw them my vote if they had a leader. Not even sure who their leader is.. Maybe I could write myself in as the PC leader, you would all vote for me right? Promise I could not be bought off and would do whatever the majority of ALL Canadians wanted.. :neutral:

compuease

moose;c-420504 wrote
And I say again, the difference in risk of infection or transmission for a vaccinated person in a room full of random people and a room of only vaccinated people is so small that it is not even measurable. ANYONE can carry the virus.

So your 'need to know' is a fallacy. Either you feel safe going out or you don't.

Nope, it's not a fallacy, while a vaccinated person can still contract or carry the infection, the risk of either hospitalization or passing it on to someone else is significantly reduced. I don't have the %'s but it has been stated many times in numerous studies, none of them on Fox.. :wink:

moose

MrCaspan;c-420472 wroteHow do you know they are not writing it down after?

I don't. But businesses are bound by the Privacy Act so there are repercussions if they fail to protect your information. I really think individuals should not be collecting vaccine information and should not be sharing it with others. There is a big difference between a business asking for your proof of vaccination and not recording that information and individuals on this site requesting people email them proof. Now you no longer have control over who has access to that. That host can then email your information to whomever they wish. That person could be hacked and someone else could take your information.

Just like putting your DoB on your social media account, some people may feel fine sharing that information but that doesn't make it wise to do so.

woog30

Have a nice day All!

Bfillmaff

< popcorn.gif >

trigs

compuease;c-420506 wroteAs for voting choice I like none of them. As far as a leader goes I probably dislike Singh the least but I just couldn't bring myself to vote NDP even if I was the candidate... well maybe.....

Trudeau has the charisma but has just gone too far I'm afraid, and the PC party, well I could probably throw them my vote if they had a leader. Not even sure who their leader is.. Maybe I could write myself in as the PC leader, you would all vote for me right? Promise I could not be bought off and would do whatever the majority of ALL Canadians wanted.. :neutral:

Who votes for the specific candidates? They're all idiots (i.e. politicians). Vote for the party that best represents your political ideology.

If I was voting for the specific person, I'd probably never vote (and I think choosing not to vote is a terrible thing to do).

MrCaspan

i vote for who represents me best in my city center.

trigs

MrCaspan;c-420512 wrotei vote for who represents me best in my city center.

Fair enough.

MrCaspan

i hate the fact that the green party for me is better here but in the capital a vote for them is a vote not used against the party you don't want in. Fucking strategic voting sucks. in my ridding in Kitchener-Conestoga ridding https://globalnews.ca/news/7906679/canada-election-kitchener-conestoga-2021/ there is normally like 100-250 votes separating conservative and liberals it's the closest ridding every election for like 4 terms its hard to not use my vote to put that vote one way or the other then the candidate. Im done voting strategically. Im voting for the candidate that best represents me locally. Do you realize how stressful it is to live in a ridding and your vote or lack of vote COULD change if a party gets a seat or not and change the federal government of your country!! You would think its awesome but its a lot of responsibility.

moose

compuease;c-420507 wrote
moose;c-420504 wrote
And I say again, the difference in risk of infection or transmission for a vaccinated person in a room full of random people and a room of only vaccinated people is so small that it is not even measurable. ANYONE can carry the virus.

So your 'need to know' is a fallacy. Either you feel safe going out or you don't.
Nope, it's not a fallacy, while a vaccinated person can still contract or carry the infection, the risk of either hospitalization or passing it on to someone else is significantly reduced. I don't have the %'s but it has been stated many times in numerous studies, none of them on Fox.. :wink:

That is exactly my point.

The risk of anyone contracting the virus is already extremely low. As a vaccinated person it is even lower. You are treating the unvaccinated as disease carrying lepers. Being in a room of vaccinated people vs a room of random people has almost no measurable difference in risk to you. Any of them, vaccinated or not is capable of carrying the virus. Either you feel safe or you don't. Needing to know their status is a fallacy.

moose

I am voting green. I usually vote liberal, sometimes ndp, rarely pc. But Trudeau was already given a 4 year mandate. Calling an election when it is not necessary is just arrogance on Trudeau's part. He thought he would win a majority, instead he is likely to lose this election. He deserves to be turfed out on his ass. My green vote is a protest vote. I refuse to vote for any of the major parties. If I could write in the Rhinoceros Party I would.

Comp, run as an independent and I will vote for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party#Rhinoceros_Party_of_Canada_(1963%E2%80%931993)

MrCaspan

@moose i agree i am still mad about the first past the post electoral promise that never got fixed and he just went meh.. what can you do..

My partner is an ECE with the Waterloo school board and the Liberals are the best candidate for ensuring education first thinking.. This is why I normally vote liberal to keep the anti education parties out. I think this year my vote is Green also as a protest but also as an actual vote for the best candidate in my ridding. Im done with voting strategically does not seem to help.

torontotablecpt

MrCaspan;c-420517 wrote@moose i agree i am still mad about the first past the post electoral promise that never got fixed and he just went meh.. what can you do..

My partner is an ECE with the Waterloo school board and the Liberals are the best candidate for ensuring education first thinking.. This is why I normally vote liberal to keep the anti education parties out. I think this year my vote is Green also as a protest but also as an actual vote for the best candidate in my ridding. Im done with voting strategically does not seem to help.

Why not ppc folks?

trigs

moose;c-420515 wrote Being in a room of vaccinated people vs a room of random people has almost no measurable difference in risk to you.

Is this actually true? Did you read something that states this? Can you please share this info as I am interested in reading it.

moose

trigs;c-420519 wrote
moose;c-420515 wrote Being in a room of vaccinated people vs a room of random people has almost no measurable difference in risk to you.
Is this actually true? Did you read something that states this? Can you please share this info as I am interested in reading it.

Just math.

trigs;c-420519 wrote
moose;c-420515 wrote Being in a room of vaccinated people vs a room of random people has almost no measurable difference in risk to you.
Is this actually true? Did you read something that states this? Can you please share this info as I am interested in reading it.

It's simple math. 6094 active cases in Ontario. Currently the reproductive rate is just over 1. Which means each person infects just over one person they come in contact with. So let's be generous and say those 6094 active cases will generate 7000 new cases. Pop of Ontario is 14.57 m. A tiny percentage of the population is carrying covid.

So one, you have to run into someone carrying covid and two you have to get infected. But if you are vaccinated, you are significantly less likely to get covid, so you can apply whatever factor you want to that. Let's just say we follow provincial average and for 30 people in a room, 80% are vaccinated. Now vaccinated or not you can still carry the virus, so do you think your chances of contracting the virus are significantly higher over being in a room where 100% are vaccinated? They are infinitesimally small. Even if you think it is 2 (it is signifcantly less than that) or 3 or 10 times more risky, whatever number you want to assign, it is still infinitesimally small.

So as I said you either feel safe or you don't. But don't treat the unvaccinated as if they are all carrying the virus and they are automatically guaranteed to give it to you. It's ridiculous.

moose

Kitchener Central has no Liberal running since he decided to get handsy with his employees. It is after the nomination period so you can count one extra seat for PC since the Libs can't replace him.

moose

trigs

MrCaspan;c-420517 wrote@moose i agree i am still mad about the first past the post electoral promise that never got fixed and he just went meh.. what can you do..

My partner is an ECE with the Waterloo school board and the Liberals are the best candidate for ensuring education first thinking.. This is why I normally vote liberal to keep the anti education parties out. I think this year my vote is Green also as a protest but also as an actual vote for the best candidate in my ridding. Im done with voting strategically does not seem to help.

I also do not like strategic voting as I see too many issues with it. As a teacher (and a partner of a teacher) I obviously cannot vote fo

moose;c-420520 wrote
trigs;c-420519 wrote
moose;c-420515 wrote Being in a room of vaccinated people vs a room of random people has almost no measurable difference in risk to you.
Is this actually true? Did you read something that states this? Can you please share this info as I am interested in reading it.
Just math.
trigs;c-420519 wrote
moose;c-420515 wrote Being in a room of vaccinated people vs a room of random people has almost no measurable difference in risk to you.
Is this actually true? Did you read something that states this? Can you please share this info as I am interested in reading it.
It's simple math. 6094 active cases in Ontario. Currently the reproductive rate is just over 1. Which means each person infects just over one person they come in contact with. So let's be generous and say those 6094 active cases will generate 7000 new cases. Pop of Ontario is 14.57 m. A tiny percentage of the population is carrying covid.

So one, you have to run into someone carrying covid and two you have to get infected. But if you are vaccinated, you are significantly less likely to get covid, so you can apply whatever factor you want to that. Let's just say we follow provincial average and for 30 people in a room, 80% are vaccinated. Now vaccinated or not you can still carry the virus, so do you think your chances of contracting the virus are significantly higher over being in a room where 100% are vaccinated? They are infinitesimally small. Even if you think it is 2 (it is signifcantly less than that) or 3 or 10 times more risky, whatever number you want to assign, it is still infinitesimally small.

So as I said you either feel safe or you don't. But don't treat the unvaccinated as if they are all carrying the virus and they are automatically guaranteed to give it to you. It's ridiculous.

Simply math. My mistake.

Bfillmaff

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